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Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology



Hi Jennifer

I've wanted to come over some time and say Hi and introduce myself as a fellow Vancouverite.  I am aware that you work out at UBC because I googled Vygotsky and UBC and your name popped up. I read your resume and was excited to see your areas of research. I did my master's degree in Counselling Psychology at UBC with Richard Young. I also have taken courses with Lanney Kanevsky at SFU.  As you can see by my response to Mabel I just posted what my interests are. 
I want to look at your article on social emotional learning as it is a big focus in the Vancouver School District and I anm worried about its focus on the individual as the locus of change and does not emphasize the "social turn"

I live out at UBC so I hope we can meet in person.

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Vadeboncoeur <vadebonc@interchange.ubc.ca>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

> Mabel and Martin,
> 
> A colleague and I are finishing up a paper 
> looking at SEL programs and we've also used 
> Martin's (2001) piece, The problem of transfer, 
> and the sociocultural critique of schooling in 
> the Journal of the Learning Sciences to think 
> through ontology, the production of positions for 
> identities, and the role of schooling in the 
> process of "producing" certain kinds of 
> "outcomes" for children and youth. The "purpose 
> of schooling" is a central issue to (all of) our 
> work, and one that surfaced at AERA several years 
> ago as well.
> 
> Nel Noddings work may help in a tangential way, 
> because she is concerned as well with creating a 
> school context that addresses the whole person-a 
> person with cognitive, affective, social 
> abilities and relationships. She has challenged 
> folks like Cohen of the Center for Social and 
> Emotional Education, recently, to think through 
> changes in school climate on a broader and more 
> relational level.
> 
> Best - jennifer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Mabel,
> >
> >Yes, this is where LSV insists on the importance 
> >of not confusing epistemological issues with 
> >ontological ones. It's one of the more puzzling 
> >passages in Crisis, and I suspect there are some 
> >problems with the translation. (Is the indented 
> >passage a quotation from Hoffding? Does anyone 
> >have that text?) Nothing here about 
> >methodological dualism, however. I don't think 
> >this passage is the place to start to understand 
> >better the distinction between epistemology and 
> >ontology, if that is what you want to do.
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >You might consider taking a look here (if so tell me whether or 
> not it helps):
> >
> >Packer, M. J., & Goicoechea, J. (2000). 
> >Sociocultural and constructivist theories of 
> >learning: Ontology, not just epistemology. 
> >Educational Psychologist, 35(4), 227-241.
> >
> >
> >On Nov 14, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>  Martin,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Here it is (Andy sent it to me, I have it in 
> >>hardcopy Vol 3 of Vygotsky's Collected Works, 
> >>p. 310): 
> >>http://marx.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri13.htm#p1367
> >>
> >>
> >>  Mabel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>  Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotions and methodology
> >>>  From: packer@duq.edu
> >>>  Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:42:06 -0500
> >>>  To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >>>  Mabel,
> >>>
> >>>  I confess I don't recognize the term 
> >>>methodological dualism. Where are you finding 
> >>>this?
> >>>
> >>>  Martin
> >>>
> >>>  On Nov 14, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Mabel Encinas wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  My question to Andy was if he could please 
> >>>>give me some references about the 
> >>>>difference-relation between ontological and 
> >>>>methodological dualism? I was aimed to get 
> >>>>some contemporary references to this 
> >>>>discussion. I already had read Vygotsky. Does 
> >>>>anyone has a suggestion, please?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Thank you,
> >>>>  Mabel
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>  Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:56:07 -0800
> >>>>>  Subject: Re: [xmca] Hello Other Brain, how are you?
> >>>>>  From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> >>>>>  To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  There was a discussion of this topic around 
> >>>>>your MCA article a while back,
> >>>>>  Michael. Mabel might be able to use some of 
> >>>>>the specific techniques, which,
> >>>>>  I recall, were not too demading in terms of 
> >>>>>technology, to find a bridge to
> >>>>>  what her advisors expect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Martin's sources are right on. But Mabel is 
> >>>>>going to have to negotiate the
> >>>>>  rocky
> >>>>>  shoals of her own institutional situation, 
> >>>>>and invoking XMCA is not likely
> >>>>>  to win her a lot of friends!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 8:16 AM, 
> >>>>>Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>  In the following piece, we show how 
> >>>>>>emotion (as evidenced in prosody) is a
> >>>>>>  resource for the coordination of social action. Michael
> >  >>>>>
> >>>>>>  Cult Stud of Sci Educ
> >>>>>>  DOI 10.1007/s11422-009-9203-8
> >>>>>>  Solidarity and conflict: aligned and misaligned prosody
> >>>>>>  as a transactional resource in intra- and intercultural
> >>>>>>  communication involving power differences
> >>>>>>  Wolff-Michael Roth Æ Kenneth Tobin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  here
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  On 2009-11-14, at 6:55 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
> >  >>>>>
> >>>>>>  I'm going to ignore Andy's request to 
> >>>>>>ignore his message to Mabel, because
> >>>>>>  I'm sure Mabel is not the only person being told 
> this sort of thing. The
> >>>>>>  claim, I suppose, is that emotion is a 
> >>>>>>subjective experience, and therefore
> >>>>>>  something mental, internal, personal, 
> >>>>>>private and so inaccessible to other
> >>>>>>  people, including the researcher, who has access 
> only to the external
> >>>>>>  'expression' of that emotion, on the face, in 
> movements, etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  Nonsense. How to argue against that view? Take a 
> look at Joe de Rivera's
> >>>>>>  work on emotions as interpersonal 
> >>>>>>movements, towards or away from people on
> >>>>>>  three interpersonal dimensions of 
> >>>>>>intimacy, openness, and status. Read Hall
> >>>>>>  and Cobey (1976) on emotion as transformation of 
> the world. Read Mead's
> >>>>>>  Mind, Self and Society where he challenges Darwin, 
> insisting that "we
> >>>>>>  cannot approach them [emotions] from the point of 
> view of expressing a
> >>>>>>  content in the mind of the individual" (p. 
> >>>>>>17) because to do so presumes a
> >>>>>>  dualism between consciousness and the biological 
> organism.>>>>>>
> >>>>>>  These are some resources that come 
> >>>>>>immediately to my mind. What can others
> >>>>>>  out there recommend?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  Martin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  On Nov 14, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  You have good muses Mabel (Vygotsky and Marx), pity you
> >>>>>>>  don't have better supervisors. Your approach, studying
> >>>>>>>  microsituations as social, is Vygotsky's approach 
> too, I
> >>>>>>>  think, and excellent one, that is often, I fear, 
> not well
> >>>>>>>  understood. I am probably the last person to ask 
> about that
> >>>>>>>  kind of problem as I have a devil of a problem 
> making myself
> >>>>>>>  understood. Others will know the answers to your 
> questions>>>>>>>  better than me, too. But I will mention a 
> few suggestions.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Mabel Encinas wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  My supervisors are questioning now, that I do not 
> study emotions, but
> >>>>>>>>  "the expression of emotions". I know how 
> >>>>>>>>to solidify my argument in this
> >>>>>>>>  bit, but could you please give me some 
> >>>>>>>>references of where should I read
> >>>>>>>>  about the difference-relation between ontological 
> and methodological
> >>>>>>>>  dualism?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  I guess you have already read Vygotsky's comments on
> >>>>>>>  ontological vs methodological/epistemological dualism:
> >>>>>>>  
> http://marx.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri13.htm#p1367>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  If you use Google on this one, you will probably 
> find a page
> >>>>>>>  where I am being attacked by someone called 
> Neville for
> >>>>>>>  failing to make this distinction. I am far from 
> sure of the
> >>>>>>>  value of that exchange but you are welcome to read 
> it. I
> >>>>>>>  would not attempt a short summary of this issue.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  I am not sure what you are being accused of about 
> emotions.>>>>>>>  Martha Nussbaum is a Critical Theorist 
> who writes good stuff
> >>>>>>>  about emotions. And of course everyone reads Antonio
> >>>>>>>  Damassio, with his distinction between feelings and
> >>>>>>>  emotions. Certainly, emotions are only present in
> >>>>>>>  consciousness thanks to their "interpretation" by 
> culturally>>>>>>>  acquired concepts.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  ""the expression of emotions" is a strange 
> expression to me.
> >>>>>>>  Are they using "emotions" to refer to forms of 
> consciousness>>>>>>>  which are "expressed" in high blood 
> pressure, etc? Or are
> >>>>>>>  they using "emotions" to refer to physiological 
> conditions,>>>>>>>  which are "expressed" in the character 
> of behavior. I don't
> >>>>>>>  understand. I am sure others will know. Sounds 
> like a
> >>>>>>>  template accusation.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  Andy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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> >  >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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