# RE: [xmca] comognition some more

```Did the 7-3 come in in the course of the same example (3+3+7 with a partial
sum of 6 for 3+3)?
If so is it the older or younger person who goes back to 3 in the second
step as if it hadn't already been taken care of in the first step?
Might be the child just doesn't "conceive" the first step in the same way
the older person does (I think, for example, that a partial sum gobbles up

And if both issues came up in the same example, who "reverses directions"
between the written version and the spoken question?  Adult or child?
Might be the child goes "back" to a 3 and so does a minus?

How about if the adult just keeps on moving to the right with fingers and
words and use a side sequence (co-spoken and written) for the partial sum?
A: "Three plus three?
[B: "six"   A: (crossing out 3+3 and replacing it with 6)]
A: "six plus seven"
B: "thirteen"
NEXT problem...

Or probably "rewrite" the problem with the child to begin with. Then the
re-written form and the talk take advantage of the nice ten-ness in it.
And the child is making the question, doing the whole not just parts, making
the goal with the response and getting a chance to play with the nice
strategy of using ten-ness facts.
Joint talk, pointing, writing:
"Let's see if there's a 10 in here: Nope, not in that 3+3 part. Yes, there
it is in the 3+7 part. Let's write the whole thing our way. 7+3    +3. So
7+3 (= 10) Then what's left? +3  Easy peezie 10 + 3, that's 13"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:20 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
> Subject: [xmca] comognition some more
>
> Another example of a struggling kid and how the strugggles manifest
> themselves in talk and action.
>
> They were the same as the problems I had helped her with the week
> before. I
> asked her if she remembered how we added the two easy numbers together
> and
> then added the third umber to that answer. She nodded yes and so that's
> what
> we did for all the problems. For example, if the problem was 3 + 3 + 7
> we
> added 3 + 3 first, which is six and then added the 7 to six, to get the
> final answer. One thing I noticed, which I noticed before, is that A
> seems
> to subtract a lot of times instead of add. So if I ask her what 7 + 3
> is she
> blurts out 4 really fast and then says, "no." (Counts on her fingers)
> and
> then says 10. I'm not sure why she wants to subtract but this seems to
> slow
> her down a lot because she has to really think it through.
>
> Again, ability presupposed by school and teacher are absent.
> mike
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