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Re: [xmca] Internalization of performance standards

Yes. We appear to be talking past each other with lots of bemused observers.

I misinterpreted your first message because I had this
quick response to the word "standards" which in my
life comes up most often in the NCLB context. You quite appropriately
reoriented me.

But I got to thinking, as I often do, about internalization
at the level of individuals and of organizations. Hence my response.

In YOUR context (now) I believe we agree.

PS-- Do you think I am totally off the wall in drawing an analogy between
internalization at the individual and organizational levels? (Disinterest
aside). Certainly very possible!!!

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:

> Mike
>      I'm sorry, I have no real interest in NCLB (that isn't true, but not
> in this context). I was referring to the sense in which Bodrova and Leong
> seem to be using it. You seem to recognize that sense?
> Ed
> On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
> Ed-- I do not have the refs to hand, but there is quite a literature on the
> impact of NCLBehind on classroom
> practices.
> Peter S and many others. Help!!
> mike
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>> Mike
>>         There is always the question of the Other and volumes have been
>> written on this. However, it is the process of this type of internalization
>> in which I'm interested as it seems to be always simultaneously problematic
>> and crucial. So as you say THAT, might you say more about THAT (smile) or
>> point me, as you have graciously done, in the direction?
>> Ed
>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>> Oh, THAT kind of performance standards. I was missing the context. e.g. we
>> internalize the expectations that others have of us.
>> Shifting contexts to the level of national educational policy (which was
>> the context I created with your words) provides an sort of interesting way
>> to think about the extent to which no child left behind standards were
>> internalized. At the institutional level, a lot in some places judging by
>> the way in which classrooms have been changed into test driven organizations
>> and accepted as "appropriate" (having been appropriated!).
>> mike
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>>> Mike
>>>      The idea behind such a phrasing, if I understand correctly, seems to
>>> predate Aristotle (he says something like "We think it proper for the young
>>> to be modest, because as they live by feeling they often err, and modesty
>>> may keep them in check"), but such wording (i.e.  'internalization of
>>> performance standards') appears in Elena Bodrova and Deborah J. Leong. Tools
>>> of the Mind so I had assumed that it was somewhat usual.
>>> Ed
>>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>  Could you expand please, Ed? I am not certain of what you mean.
>>>> mike
>>>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>  Hi Folks
>>>>>   In some reading I've been doing the notion of, one might say,
>>>>> 'internalization of performance standards' appears. I have the
>>>>> impression
>>>>> that Vygotsky thought something like thist and/or some of those after
>>>>> him.
>>>>> Any places I can look for more information?
>>>>> Ed Wall
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
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