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Re: [xmca] Internalization of performance standards



Well, if you put it that way (smile), you take me back, in a sense, to Goffman and face work (and, perhaps, elsewhere) and I would say yes it does happen at the organizational level and it may not just be an accumulation of internalized individuals. In fact, I wonder if any individual need internalize. That is, the They is actually anonymous.

Ed

On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Mike Cole wrote:

Yes. We appear to be talking past each other with lots of bemused observers.

I misinterpreted your first message because I had this
quick response to the word "standards" which in my
life comes up most often in the NCLB context. You quite appropriately reoriented me.

But I got to thinking, as I often do, about internalization
at the level of individuals and of organizations. Hence my response.

In YOUR context (now) I believe we agree.
mike

PS-- Do you think I am totally off the wall in drawing an analogy between internalization at the individual and organizational levels? (Disinterest aside). Certainly very possible!!!


On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
Mike

I'm sorry, I have no real interest in NCLB (that isn't true, but not in this context). I was referring to the sense in which Bodrova and Leong seem to be using it. You seem to recognize that sense?

Ed

On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Mike Cole wrote:

Ed-- I do not have the refs to hand, but there is quite a literature on the impact of NCLBehind on classroom
practices.

Peter S and many others. Help!!
mike

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
Mike

There is always the question of the Other and volumes have been written on this. However, it is the process of this type of internalization in which I'm interested as it seems to be always simultaneously problematic and crucial. So as you say THAT, might you say more about THAT (smile) or point me, as you have graciously done, in the direction?

Ed

On Mar 24, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Mike Cole wrote:

Oh, THAT kind of performance standards. I was missing the context. e.g. we internalize the expectations that others have of us.

Shifting contexts to the level of national educational policy (which was the context I created with your words) provides an sort of interesting way to think about the extent to which no child left behind standards were internalized. At the institutional level, a lot in some places judging by the way in which classrooms have been changed into test driven organizations and accepted as "appropriate" (having been appropriated!).
mike

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
Mike

The idea behind such a phrasing, if I understand correctly, seems to predate Aristotle (he says something like "We think it proper for the young to be modest, because as they live by feeling they often err, and modesty may keep them in check"), but such wording (i.e. 'internalization of performance standards') appears in Elena Bodrova and Deborah J. Leong. Tools of the Mind so I had assumed that it was somewhat usual.

Ed


On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Mike Cole wrote:

Could you expand please, Ed? I am not certain of what you mean.
mike

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:

Hi Folks

  In some reading I've been doing the notion of, one might say,
'internalization of performance standards' appears. I have the impression that Vygotsky thought something like thist and/or some of those after him.
Any places I can look for more information?

Ed Wall

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