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Re: [xmca] Internalization of performance standards
Well, if you put it that way (smile), you take me back, in a sense, to
Goffman and face work (and, perhaps, elsewhere) and I would say yes
it does happen at the organizational level and it may not just be an
accumulation of internalized individuals. In fact, I wonder if any
individual need internalize. That is, the They is actually anonymous.
On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
Yes. We appear to be talking past each other with lots of bemused
I misinterpreted your first message because I had this
quick response to the word "standards" which in my
life comes up most often in the NCLB context. You quite
appropriately reoriented me.
But I got to thinking, as I often do, about internalization
at the level of individuals and of organizations. Hence my response.
In YOUR context (now) I believe we agree.
PS-- Do you think I am totally off the wall in drawing an analogy
between internalization at the individual and organizational levels?
(Disinterest aside). Certainly very possible!!!
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Ed Wall <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I'm sorry, I have no real interest in NCLB (that isn't true,
but not in this context). I was referring to the sense in which
Bodrova and Leong seem to be using it. You seem to recognize that
On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
Ed-- I do not have the refs to hand, but there is quite a
literature on the impact of NCLBehind on classroom
Peter S and many others. Help!!
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Ed Wall <email@example.com> wrote:
There is always the question of the Other and volumes have
been written on this. However, it is the process of this type of
internalization in which I'm interested as it seems to be always
simultaneously problematic and crucial. So as you say THAT, might
you say more about THAT (smile) or point me, as you have graciously
done, in the direction?
On Mar 24, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
Oh, THAT kind of performance standards. I was missing the context.
e.g. we internalize the expectations that others have of us.
Shifting contexts to the level of national educational policy
(which was the context I created with your words) provides an sort
of interesting way to think about the extent to which no child
left behind standards were internalized. At the institutional
level, a lot in some places judging by the way in which classrooms
have been changed into test driven organizations and accepted as
"appropriate" (having been appropriated!).
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Ed Wall <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
The idea behind such a phrasing, if I understand correctly,
seems to predate Aristotle (he says something like "We think it
proper for the young to be modest, because as they live by feeling
they often err, and modesty may keep them in check"), but such
wording (i.e. 'internalization of performance standards') appears
in Elena Bodrova and Deborah J. Leong. Tools of the Mind so I had
assumed that it was somewhat usual.
On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Mike Cole wrote:
Could you expand please, Ed? I am not certain of what you mean.
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ed Wall <email@example.com> wrote:
In some reading I've been doing the notion of, one might say,
'internalization of performance standards' appears. I have the
that Vygotsky thought something like thist and/or some of those
Any places I can look for more information?
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