Dear Mike and everybody--
I'm reading our discussion in the opposite order -- I find it is fun to do
that.
Mike wrote,
> Here, I believe, is the insight about artifacts. Their dual nature as
> material and ideal, which is what I have interpreted Ilyenkov to have
> been saying.
In my view, a sociocultural activity unites the material and the ideal as
the material and the ideal (the object and the subject) being transformed in
the activity to achieve our goals (that become also transformed in the
activity). Practices, recycling certain activities, stabilize (reproduce)
the material and the ideal world of humans... As EVI pointed out, we know
the materiality and ideality of bread through a sociocultural practice of
making bread that reproduces not only the material object itself -- bread --
but also our human (Russian) need for it that we, in Russian society, call
hunger (this specific "hunger strive" for bread as essential human need in
Russian society with its political implications as "bread revolts" or
"gologomor" may not exist in another society).
What do you think?
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cole [mailto:mcole@weber.ucsd.edu]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:17 PM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: Response to Steve G on EVI and Bakhurst - The annotations
>
> Victor wrote, in part:
>
> A side comment: I think ideality (meaningfulness) needs to be
> distinguished
> from materiality when we speak of produced objects - we produce both the
> material object and its meaning (its ideality). A meaningful object has
> both ideality and materiality. A meaningful object is not the same as
> ideality and ideality is not equivalent to meaningful objects.
>
> Here, I believe, is the insight about artifacts. Their dual nature as
> material and ideal, which is what I have interpreted Ilyenkov to have
> been saying. How WE orient to the material and ideal aspects of meaningful
> objects (artifacts), and through them, I take to be the special nature
> of homo sapiens. May they surivive their cleaverness!
> mike
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