RE: measuring candidates

From: Eugene Matusov (
Date: Tue Jan 27 2004 - 15:51:37 PST

Dear Nate-

I'm not sure you understand my points:

1) I do not want to convince you or anybody else in anything. I'm testing
ideas and I hope that other people on xmca will help me.
2) I do not argue for Dean but rather for Donald Duck using Judy's metaphor
(i.e., whoever of Democrats but not Bush).
3) My example of Hitler was NOT about people who tried to choose a lesser
evil between Stalinists and Nazis (you are right there were many people like
that). It was about people who hated Nazism but chose not to search for a
broader coalision but rather for their dream candidate. In France, a broader
coalision (at least temporarily) was achieved in face of Nazism.
4) I'm aware of the complexity of the issue. We are dealing with the
situation when a prolepsis can or cannot change the reality like in a case
of self-fulfilling prophecy. You provide a nice reasoning for this point.
However, blind rely on prolepsis can lead to "voluntarism". The issue is
when proleptic actions can work and when they can't.
5) Nate, if you tired of this topic, I suggest stopping contributing to it.
If nobody is interested in the topic, it will die by itself.
6) In my view, if we start avoiding disagreements, we may deteriorate as an
intellectual community.

What do you think (but only if you are interested in continuing)?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: N*** [mailto:vygotsky who-is-at]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:54 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: measuring candidates
> Wrong Eugene. Hitler came to power because the lesser evil was chosen.
> I get so tired of this crap. We live in a country where 60% do not vote
> - do not have an honest option to - because of tweedle dee and tweedle
> dum. Then the powers that be throw out scare tactics that are complete
> lies.
> If you all were arguing that we should rally behind Kucinich, I could
> understand somewhat, but Dean please. What will happen is Dean will move
> rightward and Bush farther so. Bush will win because months before the
> election he will start bringing troops hope (Dean will lose that issue).
> By contrast, if we put a left of center candidate up, Bush would be
> forced to become moderate. The lesser evil in fact moves the politics
> rightward.
> Kind of like the Praxis all over again (sorry could not resist).
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Steve Gabosch []
> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 2:21 PM
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: measuring candidates
> >>
> >>Nate's comment:
> >>
> >>>My greater point similar to the socialist saying, vote your dreams not
> >>>your fears, is if many of us fall into the left / libertarian camp, why
> >
> > do
> >
> >>>we continue to push for and support right authoratarian candidates.
> >>
> >>... reminds me of something wise Eugene Debs, the early 20th Century
> >>American socialist, said about voting: "It's better to vote for what
> >>want, and not get it, than to vote for what you don't want, and get it."
> >>
> >>- Steve
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >

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