Hi Tatyana and everybody--
You asked
> P.S. Eugene, would you mind such a variant " We can't foresee how our word
> will echo in your souls"?
Sure -- I like it alot! Can you provide the entire poem in English, please,
so other xmca-ers can appreciate? As Rachel correctly pointed out, it is
Tutchev's poem (below the poem in Russian fonts),
??? ?? ???? ???????????,
??? ???? ????? ?????????,--
? ??? ?????????? ??????,
??? ??? ?????? ?????????....
27 ??????? 1869.
Tatyana wrote,
> I once read somewhere, that it is impossible to hurt somebody until s/he
> wants to be hurt. It's kind of exaggeration, of couse,still...
I think that although it may be true in some (I'd say very rare)
circumstances but it can be a very dangerous statement blaming a victim of
violence for inviting/provoking the violence.
>I would
> never believe that people gathered om XMCA-list wanted deliberatly hurt or
> offend somebody.
Me neither. However, sometimes some considerations in debates can take over
concerns about other people well-being. For example, to win an intellectual
argument, I may cross line of respectful disagreement with my opponent by
mocking his/her point or making some inappropriate personal remarks.
Academic (and non-academic) debate such an interesting and strange
discourse. Sometimes it implies that truth and happiness will come to the
Earth if only people with whom I disagree (and, thus, who are obviously
wrong or even evil :-) disappear. There is nothing far from the truth as we
now know from the history of totalitarian regimes.
>Friendly teasing is a way to provoke further discussion
> and sometimes even rudeness is meant to attract attention.
Sure. What is allowed among friends is not allowed among strangers (or just
non-friends). One Russian (i.e., Russian-Russian) colleague of mine (as a
Russian Jew) complained that he was called Anti-Semite for telling a joke
about Jews that he overheard in a company of Russian Jews. Many black people
in US use n... word but would strongly object non-black people using it
(unless they are very close friends, probably).
>One should only
> believe that it was not aimed at him/her personally and s/he won't feel
> offended.
I wish it always worked...
>And I know that scientists and teachers are very vulnerable
> people.
Some time ago, Dianne made a sad joke (maybe it was not a joke?!) that all
academicians are dysfunctional in their/our own way. My first reaction was a
strong protest but after careful observation on myself and ... Oh yes, we
are vulnerable (Dianne, I like better the word "vulnerable" than
"dysfunctional :-)
What do you think?
Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sazonova [mailto:sazon@kursknet.ru]
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 12:58 AM
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: Rules not to call me a dummy
>
>
>
>
>
> Eugene Matusov wrote:
>
> > However, I do not believe that rules prevent from hurting
> others and from
> > being hurt. Moreover, there is no way for me to make sure that my
> postings
> > won't hurt somebody.
>
> I once read somewhere, that it is impossible to hurt somebody untill s/he
> wants to be hurt. It's kind of exaggeration, of couse,still... I would
> never believe that people gathered om XMCA-list wanted deliberatly hurt or
> offend somebody. Friendly teasing is a way to provoke further discussion
> and sometimes even rudeness is meant to attract attention. One should only
> believe that it was not aimed at him/her personnaly and s/he won't feel
> offended. And I know that scientists and teachers are very vulnerable
> people.
>
> Tatiana Sazonova
>
>
> P.S. Eugene, would you mind such a variant " We can't foresee how our word
> will echo in your souls"?
>
>
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