However, I found Nate's comment interesting, that "<<with Russian students
the social context was different (more rigid) and those concepts did not
occur as everyday concepts">> and I was reaching, in my response to Nate,
for a way to describe what I perceive to be a characteristic of (many) U.S.
intellectuals as opposed to those in other English-speaking countries -- a
kind of bricolage, a cavalier way with methods & theories (yeah, okay, I am
describing myself, but the same could be said of others on this list and is
less likely to pertain to academic writing from, say, Australia or Germany
-- the ancestor to English-speaking us. That's how it seems to me, anyway
I'm thinking of that little boy who used the geometric object as a scheme
for his drawing in a very unexpected way. Teachers of course deal with this
kind of thing all the time, but there seems to be more permission for it in
the U.S., even enouragement, either because of the romance we have with the
idea of the individual, or because of a long history of cross pollination of
multiple communities -- is "cross pollination" of different sociocultural
groups analogous to "standing on the shoulders of giants"? i.e., immersing
oneself in the sensemaking orientation of others through their texts...
idly speculating,
Judy
"what is done by what is called myself is, I feel, done by something greater
than myself in me" -- James Clerk Maxwell
At 08:06 PM 7/25/99 -0200, you wrote:
>Mrs. Diamondstone,
>
>Forgive-me if I intromiss myself in your conversation with...=20
>(Nate?)
>But, I'm very interested in this issue.
>
>Judy Diamondstone wrote:>=20
>> If Nate's memory serves & U.S. kids' understandings were more "everyday"
in their formation while the Russians' concepts more=20
>"scientific" & "rigid" that suggests that flexibility is a function of=20
>pre-scientific (in V's terms) concepts=20
>
>First,I understand that concepts formation, as in americans as in=20
>russians persons, is a process in which concrete (everyday) and abstract=20
>(scientific or social) concepts interact, dialetically.
>
>Second, that in Vygotsky's time there was not something like a =20
>prototipic and a theoric conception of concepts. So, although he had=20
>approached concepts understanding in a classical conception way, there=20
>are many interesting passages in his texts that point to a more flexible=20
>way of understanding them (paticularly when he refers to the difference=20
>between meaning and sense of words, to the coletive construction of=20
>meaning within a specific context)
>
>i.e., understandings that are more embedded in one's "own" sense-making=20
>are more available for use in more different settings and ways. Does=20
>that jibe with others' understanding of "flexibility" ? (I think it=20
>challenges the cognitive psychologists' view, no? - i.e., where=20
>"flexibility" is described in terms of functioning within a given=20
>conceptual system/ theory)
>
>Third, the 'double stimulation', as I know, had been used to observ =20
>hipotetic abstract concepts like "bik", "lag" - names=20
>arbitrarially attached to solid geometric group of figures. And it=20
>indeed was very helpfull to demostrate how since a "sincretic thinnking"=20
>children goes to "thinking in complex" and, finally, reach "conceptual=20
>or categorial thinking", and to point the main role of words in thinking=20
>process, and that a word meaning develops along ontog=EAnesis.
>
>To Vygotsky, I understand, social and everyday concepts were=20
>very interconnected one another: something like an up movement since the=20
>last ones and a down movement from the first.
>
>But, in fact, everyday concepts have a definitivelly concrete and=20
>touchible dimension on contrary to social ones.=20
>
>>=20
>> >From memory, one of the comparative studies was
>> >between U.S. and Russian students with his conclusion being many of the
>> >concepts occurred in U.S kids more in the lines of everyday concepts,=
while
>> >with Russian students the social context was different (more rigid) and
>> >those concepts did not occur as everyday concepts.
>>=20
>> >
>> >I am reminded of a story Gary Price told me when he spent a day in=
Venger's
>> >laboratory school. There was one little boy who was looking so=
carefully
>> >at a scheme of a geometric object to complete his drawing. Every few
>> >minutes he would look very carefully at the scheme and continue his=
work.
>> >Venger proudly mentioned how well the boy was using the scheme (sign) to
>> >mediate his own work. Well, the funny thing is that the boy had made
>> >something entirely different and it did not look like the scheme at all.
>> >The scheme was definately mediating the boys drawing, but not the way
>> >Venger intended.
>> >
>> >Nate
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy who-is-at mail.lesley.edu>
>> >To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
>> >Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 8:44 PM
>> >Subject: double stimulation?
>> >
>> >
>> >> Folks,
>> >>
>> >> Can you suggest any references for recent studies that have used the
>> >method of "double stimulation" (LSV, Thought and Language) to study=
concept
>> >formation? I am especially interested in a comparative study, that=
opposed
>> >this method to an other.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >>
>> >> Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
>> >> Technology in Education
>> >> Lesley College, 31 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
>> >> Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
>> >> http://www.lesley.edu/faculty/wbarowy/Barowy.html
>> >> _______________________
>> >> "One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from=
yourself
>> >> and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
>> >> [Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>=20
>> Judith Diamondstone (732) 932-7496 Ext. 352
>> Graduate School of Education
>> Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
>> 10 Seminary Place
>> New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1183
>>=20
>> Eternity is in love with the productions of time - Wm Blake
>
>
Judith Diamondstone (732) 932-7496 Ext. 352=09
Graduate School of Education
Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
10 Seminary Place =09
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1183
Eternity is in love with the productions of time - Wm Blake