He commented that it was because of the US attitude that we are tops in t=
he world,
so we don't have to act appropriately, we can relax, in essence. In busin=
ess, this
is like the CEO who dresses in jeans while the jr. executives wear suits.=
People
who are in a position of power can afford to slack off and set their own =
style -
people who feel that they are striving for the top need to follow the rul=
es and
conform to what they perceive to be the way to get to the top. Perhaps th=
is
semi-policitcal belief carries itself into the examples you mention, too.
Not that this is a bad thing on either end - the cross pollination that y=
ou mention
is a good example of things that may result from a more relaxed attitude =
towards
methods and theories. I often find myself with a healthy skepticism of th=
e endless
discussion of theories that occur more for the careers of academics than =
to help
real people. That's also a piece of the American myth-mosaic, a mistrust =
of
intellectuals and "ivory tower" academics.
Sylvia Martinez
Judy Diamondstone wrote:
> However, I found Nate's comment interesting, that "<<with Russian stude=
nts
> the social context was different (more rigid) and those concepts did no=
t
> occur as everyday concepts">> and I was reaching, in my response to Nat=
e,
> for a way to describe what I perceive to be a characteristic of (many) =
U.S.
> intellectuals as opposed to those in other English-speaking countries -=
- a
> kind of bricolage, a cavalier way with methods & theories (yeah, okay, =
I am
> describing myself, but the same could be said of others on this list an=
d is
> less likely to pertain to academic writing from, say, Australia or Germ=
any
> -- the ancestor to English-speaking us. That's how it seems to me, anyw=
ay
>
> I'm thinking of that little boy who used the geometric object as a sche=
me
> for his drawing in a very unexpected way. Teachers of course deal with =
this
> kind of thing all the time, but there seems to be more permission for i=
t in
> the U.S., even enouragement, either because of the romance we have with=
the
> idea of the individual, or because of a long history of cross pollinati=
on of
> multiple communities -- is "cross pollination" of different sociocultur=
al
> groups analogous to "standing on the shoulders of giants"? i.e., immers=
ing
> oneself in the sensemaking orientation of others through their texts...
>
> idly speculating,
> Judy
>
> "what is done by what is called myself is, I feel, done by something gr=
eater
> than myself in me" -- James Clerk Maxwell
>
> At 08:06 PM 7/25/99 -0200, you wrote:
> >Mrs. Diamondstone,
> >
> >Forgive-me if I intromiss myself in your conversation with...
> >(Nate?)
> >But, I'm very interested in this issue.
> >
> >Judy Diamondstone wrote:>
> >> If Nate's memory serves & U.S. kids' understandings were more "every=
day"
> in their formation while the Russians' concepts more
> >"scientific" & "rigid" that suggests that flexibility is a function of
> >pre-scientific (in V's terms) concepts
> >
> >First,I understand that concepts formation, as in americans as in
> >russians persons, is a process in which concrete (everyday) and abstra=
ct
> >(scientific or social) concepts interact, dialetically.
> >
> >Second, that in Vygotsky's time there was not something like a
> >prototipic and a theoric conception of concepts. So, although he had
> >approached concepts understanding in a classical conception way, there
> >are many interesting passages in his texts that point to a more flexib=
le
> >way of understanding them (paticularly when he refers to the differenc=
e
> >between meaning and sense of words, to the coletive construction of
> >meaning within a specific context)
> >
> >i.e., understandings that are more embedded in one's "own" sense-makin=
g
> >are more available for use in more different settings and ways. Does
> >that jibe with others' understanding of "flexibility" ? (I think it
> >challenges the cognitive psychologists' view, no? - i.e., where
> >"flexibility" is described in terms of functioning within a given
> >conceptual system/ theory)
> >
> >Third, the 'double stimulation', as I know, had been used to observ
> >hipotetic abstract concepts like "bik", "lag" - names
> >arbitrarially attached to solid geometric group of figures. And it
> >indeed was very helpfull to demostrate how since a "sincretic thinnkin=
g"
> >children goes to "thinking in complex" and, finally, reach "conceptual
> >or categorial thinking", and to point the main role of words in thinki=
ng
> >process, and that a word meaning develops along ontog=EAnesis.
> >
> >To Vygotsky, I understand, social and everyday concepts were
> >very interconnected one another: something like an up movement since t=
he
> >last ones and a down movement from the first.
> >
> >But, in fact, everyday concepts have a definitivelly concrete and
> >touchible dimension on contrary to social ones.
> >
> >>
> >> >From memory, one of the comparative studies was
> >> >between U.S. and Russian students with his conclusion being many of=
the
> >> >concepts occurred in U.S kids more in the lines of everyday concept=
s, while
> >> >with Russian students the social context was different (more rigid)=
and
> >> >those concepts did not occur as everyday concepts.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I am reminded of a story Gary Price told me when he spent a day in =
Venger's
> >> >laboratory school. There was one little boy who was looking so car=
efully
> >> >at a scheme of a geometric object to complete his drawing. Every f=
ew
> >> >minutes he would look very carefully at the scheme and continue his=
work.
> >> >Venger proudly mentioned how well the boy was using the scheme (sig=
n) to
> >> >mediate his own work. Well, the funny thing is that the boy had mad=
e
> >> >something entirely different and it did not look like the scheme at=
all.
> >> >The scheme was definately mediating the boys drawing, but not the w=
ay
> >> >Venger intended.
> >> >
> >> >Nate
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy who-is-at mail.lesley.edu>
> >> >To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
> >> >Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 8:44 PM
> >> >Subject: double stimulation?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Folks,
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you suggest any references for recent studies that have used =
the
> >> >method of "double stimulation" (LSV, Thought and Language) to study=
concept
> >> >formation? I am especially interested in a comparative study, that=
opposed
> >> >this method to an other.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
> >> >> Technology in Education
> >> >> Lesley College, 31 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
> >> >> Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
> >> >> http://www.lesley.edu/faculty/wbarowy/Barowy.html
> >> >> _______________________
> >> >> "One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from =
yourself
> >> >> and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautif=
ul."
> >> >> [Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Judith Diamondstone (732) 932-7496 Ext. 352
> >> Graduate School of Education
> >> Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
> >> 10 Seminary Place
> >> New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1183
> >>
> >> Eternity is in love with the productions of time - Wm Blake
> >
> >
>
> Judith Diamondstone (732) 932-7496 Ext. 352
> Graduate School of Education
> Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
> 10 Seminary Place
> New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1183
>
> Eternity is in love with the productions of time - Wm Blake