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*To*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Subject*: [Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities*From*: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>*Date*: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:35:48 +0100*In-reply-to*: <4DF034EF2396694597A7D328E23F09E1013D04@BY2PRD0510MB353.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>*List-archive*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l>*List-help*: <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=help>*List-id*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l.mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-post*: <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-subscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=subscribe>*List-unsubscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=unsubscribe>*References*: <CAG1MBOEG=8+QQG7F_9_bFRaFfzkm0LTogy161B1Yu2+6CVT4yA@mail.gmail.com> <5202B8CC.3040502@mira.net> <C19012EF8F8F7146898DA221E3E7F8E1013B0ED87603@MAIL2.bgsu.edu> <52030FD3.5010807@mira.net> <F3ED9456-A30D-46CA-BD62-054B7AE5D3A8@gmail.com> <520444BA.2000808@mira.net> <CAHH++PnQ6dzt+wdTGo4mP5W=TRzUcA0+y_AQLEPd-db_+3upJg@mail.gmail.com> <520460F0.5030506@mira.net> <CAG1MBOGxdFuNwqYArGvpBbNUxOWEYtBD2if=neQGB4M8D7qHwA@mail.gmail.com> <19E63C50-A0D2-4A0F-BBA7-63853414FDAA@gmail.com> <CAHH++PmSPVfZbp24tBk19mWqKsGgxJUXKvPcV-YSigoKYd1xOg@mail.gmail.com> <CAG1MBOGj4QZ4poKK6chaS6i=+XjkZkxiXO=r9dFAbndm3jz0AA@mail.gmail.com> <4195A368-C7B9-4AB0-AAA5-A244135DC331@gmail.com> <CAG1MBOE4sq=3bWVZZeJN47hcy4nDYMBP=+7T6u2fcYg=zNfopg@mail.gmail.com> <520ADCDD.9000406@mira.net> <CAHH++PkYTw-8Px2o03XkA3VkdouJxxLpLGWdqC=fXykgQvTY_w@mail.gmail.com> <520C3970.6000803@mira.net> <CAGaCnpwGazEUb-PDr8z15YADwWFh3iF1ZCgwH1jcXbTyEakaWg@mail.gmail.com> <CABK7i1uHzFUwq5tEdbZ1fWfyL8+mkTpd6ONZp1RvNaSz0ts5ug@mail.gmail.com> <CAHH++PkJ9YWb14VP9FMo3mG3qoowMe1d_vT6mU7PNjAOiL5=hg@mail.gmail.com> <CAGaCnpzmkyEysrkNz2i=8o1SDa248p64y5MUTizkY=zVXVrcMA@mail.gmail.com> <CAGaCnpyXRqzEV_Mk=1F7eVqJ2UK0dGoPZa8UoXrFsTYqUj88qw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHCnM0Ad9r0sJKyatSixMs9CzYQN42ae0mEhLGSS9HW+oQjgyg@mail.gmail.com> <CABK7i1uPMCPEuKDd49+=w9_UqzvRVVBaueEg9hjgMnt64MCLMw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGaCnpwNbvrvTVHn1jiADELY=H2c2eWM5tQaCP8G4O15VA-wmA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHH++PkWh2seLekk5w_KEvj0hrFOU7jkmR6a=pudT2TN+JUoyw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGaCnpxeT8wg5-tDVbeV7Ng_e74A6V5hCJSm8q8vQiNDBmQeMQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHH++Pn3-4ZWNowJ3avkud6E6o-ogXuW6oFbdF-_+ANAwB1S4w@mail.gmail.com> <CAG1MBOFFcjZbW-sEbh-a=+AY2wj4ReriTQyzBkXosHU+E6Bjdw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHH++PmCW_eaGBpENZeEb5EisiRW1iMe5K3iY=vFue3cJgDE3w@mail.gmail.com> <CAG1MBOFLBjACNxSh9vcMzqX8XgVJm7Mxymnpj435HZ1OE5O=_w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHH++Pm+pemoBJk=1C11c6aOjT4=dOQ+S-xfN0rCUt-Lqn8SpA@mail.gmail.com> <CAG1MBOFTrHp2TMD19FBUOYZNKFfhdYKoCZ0hsvy3LZ4EoQNvTA@mail.gmail.com> <4DF034EF2396694597A7D328E23F09E1013D04@BY2PRD0510MB353.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>*Reply-to*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Sender*: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu

On 20 August 2013 23:05, Lubomir Savov Popov <lspopov@bgsu.edu> wrote: > Hi Huw, > > Integrating systems and systems-functional views with > dialectical/historical materialism is not a problem at all because of their > objectivist nature. It is not always straightforward. The "single basis" of the dialectical unit is one such problem. > In addition, dialectical/historical materialists claim that the founders > of their philosophy are precursors of systems thinking. Several of their > capital writings are usually cited as examples. There is a huge difference > between Positivism and Dialectical/Historical Materialism regarding their > foundational axioms and principles, as well as their attitudes to the role > of induction/deduction in the process of knowledge production. However, at > lower levels of abstraction, they exchange knowledge with ease. I already > mentioned this regarding field research methods. However, it happens also > when borrowing theoretical products. > Positivism in the "measuring elements" sense is not holistic. > > Now, try to integrate systems thinking with the humanistic paradigms. I am > very interested in good examples of such work. I mean epistemologically > sound examples, not eclectic attempts to put together their concepts in one > text. > Yes. > > It is interesting to study how ideas about holistic presentation of > reality are operationalized/concretized in Dialectical Materialism and in > the humanist approaches. I see a huge difference in preferred topics, > concepts, and terminology. All this makes the translation of knowledge from > one tradition to the other very complicated, complex, and prone with > errors. People interpret the words (the terms are always paradigm and > discipline specific) the way they want, with full disregard to the original > intentions and the habitual interpretation of these terms in their original > paradigmatic environment. I have seen that very often. I myself have > experienced such states of mind many times. You will be astonished, but > many historical materialist concept are interpreted very differently by > authors outside that community. The background for interpretation is different; there are huge inaccuracies > in translating words instead of terms and concepts; many of the terms and > concepts simply cannot be translated; and so on. Usually, the definitions > of terms and concepts cover only their core. The "mantle" around the core > cannot be explicated because it is very fluid, requires a lot of text, and > actually, there is no full agreement about it. Researches develop a sense > about the periphery by constantly reading authors that are very close in > thinking. This is one example of tacit knowledge (we talked about that > yesterday). > These are all difficulties. But this is not the same as "not possible". Best, Huw > > Let me stop here... > > Lubomir > > Lubo > > >

**References**:**[Xmca-l] operational def'n of UoA (was Re: Re: ping)***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Leontyev's activities***From:*Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Lubomir Savov Popov <lspopov@bgsu.edu>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*greg.a.thompson@gmail.com

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*greg.a.thompson@gmail.com

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Antti Rajala <ajrajala@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Antti Rajala <ajrajala@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Leontyev's activities***From:*Lubomir Savov Popov <lspopov@bgsu.edu>

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