Re: [xmca] "Inner Form" of Word, Symmetry, Ivanov Bateson?

[Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>]

The epigenetic inheritance we talked about here a year or so ago would be similar. Ok, now how does this relate to word meaning and brain asymmetry?

Martin

On May 30, 2011, at 7:11 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:

> On 31 May 2011 00:03, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Huw,
>> 
>> I think you win the prize for maximal name-dropping in a single sentence.
>> How about you now unpack that, serially, for those of us operating with only
>> half a brain?
>> 
>> 
> Here's a quick first go at unpacking it.  :)
> 
> In 'Steps to An Ecology of Mind', Bateson described processes of biological
> adaption in terms of an example of a giraffe and, in particular, it's
> heart.  Part of this interest appears to have been notions of plasticity.
> Of being able to reach beyond a 'comfort zone' and being predisposed to this
> kind of plasticity.  If I remember correctly, the example given was of a
> modestly sized giraffe that was able to mate with, or compete for a mate
> with, stronger giraffes (stronger in the sense of a given genetic
> predisposition to strength).  The plasticity effectively allows the giraffe
> to adapt his/her biology ontogenetically (through, say, increased muscle
> mass by exercise).  Now we have a situation where a humble sized giraffe
> with good potential is able to mate with a range of giraffes including the
> super-sized variant.
> 
> The strong Lamarkian assertion is that things we learn ontogenetically can
> be passed on to off spring.  Traditional Darwinian theory doesn't allow for
> this, the evolution is in one direction, and the adaption is achieved
> through mutation and "random" cross-seeding.
> 
> However, in the same way that Waddington demonstrated with fruit fly
> ontogenetic change/adaption that is carried over into offspring, we can
> follow the thread of this feedback using these concepts.  Waddington showed
> that by intervening in fruit fly pupae development, and thereby encouraging
> particular wing formation changes to arise, that later generational
> offspring 'inherited' this change in wing construction.
> 
> We can conceive, logically, of the possibility of this occurring with the
> aid of the concept of variety.  An organism can be conceived of an unfolding
> variety, starting from its genetic code, which we can take as expressing its
> phylogeny.  The interpretation of this genetic code, the unfolding process
> of a living organism, comprises its ontogeny.
> 
> Now, the genetic code, in addition to the environment in which it is
> interpreted, expresses the organism's developmental variety, the different
> ways in which the codes can be made sense of.  So in order to see an
> 'inherited' ontogenetic attribute it is not necessary to change the genetic
> code, rather it may suffice to change the interpretation of the code
> provided that the code has sufficient expressive variety to encapsulate the
> adaption.
> 
> Hence the idea of the plasticity of the giraffe, and its increased potential
> to pass on ontogenetically derived 'tips' to its offspring.  This comprises
> of a more directed form of evolution which, I believe, is missing from the
> classic Darwinian formulation (although I'm guessing that this is all par
> for course in biological/DNA research etc).
> 
> There is more logic to this Lamarkian-like process, which I could describe a
> bit more (it's a bit late here).  Though this may elaborate sufficiently?
> 
> Huw
> 
> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> On May 30, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>> 
>>> With respect to inner form, the pieces that I find intriguing are
>> Bateson's
>>> take on Lamarkian-like development in conjunction with Waddington's
>>> discoveries and Beer's approach to requisite variety.
>> 
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