Re: [xmca] Influence

[Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Well, you might also ask Mr Levitin.
mike

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> Yes but ... David referred to this. As far as I can see all the biographers
> of Vygotsky get this idea from the same source, Semyon Dobkin's interview in
> Karl Levitin's book. We have to go there and make our own mind up about what
> it means.  And the only other evidence is reading what Vygotsky says in his
> published writings.
>
> In my opinion, neither of these sources lad one to believe that he actually
> read Hegel.
>
> Did anyone ever read Thor Hayerdal's "Kontiki" about how everyone insisted
> that balsa wood sank in water. He tried it. It didn't sink. Turned out that
> one writer had said but this without trying it, and everyone repeated what
> that one author had said, and it became an established fact.
>
> Andy
>
>
> Martin Packer wrote:
>
>> This is my favorite:
>>
>> "[Vygotsky] presided over local Jewish history study circle (where he met
>> Hegel)"
>>
>>  From "Time line of Lev Vygotsky's Life":
>>
>>  <http://inst.usu.edu/~mimi/courses/6260/theorists/Vygotsky/vygotime.html<http://inst.usu.edu/%7Emimi/courses/6260/theorists/Vygotsky/vygotime.html>
>> >
>>
>> I've often wondered what Hegel was doing during the early 20th century.
>> Apparently he was studying history in Russia! I wonder what he and LSV
>> talked about.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
>>
>>  "Both Mead and Vygotsky studied Hegel's writings intensively"
>>>
>>> Van der Veer, R. (1987).  The relation between Vygotsky and Mead
>>> reconsidered. A comment on Glock.
>>> Studies in East European Thought. 34, Numbers 1-2 / July, 1987
>>>
>>>  Do people have any opinions on this?
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the concept of "influence" is more widely applied than
>>>> can be justified. When is a "source" an "influence"?
>>>>
>>>> For example, Google gave me the following quotes:
>>>>
>>>> ---------------
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by Marxist theorists" (wik.ed.uiuc.edu)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by Dewey" (Cambridge Companion)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by his contemporaries" (Peter Lloyd, Charles
>>>> Fernyhough)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by thinkers like Spinoza, Freud, Marx and
>>>> Piaget" (www.oise.utoronto.ca)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by the writings of Marx, Engels, and Hegel. He
>>>> was also influenced by Piaget, Blonskii, and Werner" (Moll)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by Janet's ideas on ..." (Grigorenko)
>>>>
>>>> "Vygotsky was influenced by and influenced many theorists. Jean Piaget,
>>>> Jerome Bruner, Albert Bandura, Etienne Wenger, and Dewey are just a few." (
>>>> jonliu.com)
>>>>
>>>> ---------------
>>>>
>>>> I think the first three are tenable, but the rest are not. We are
>>>> "influenced" by people we interact with and those answering to the same
>>>> times and problems as us. But what can  I make of a claim that Vygotsky was
>>>> "influenced" by Spinoza, who lived about 250 years before him? Everyone
>>>> contributes to an intellectual situation and we respond to that situation,
>>>> but does that amount to "influence"? "Influence" belongs to a behaviorist's
>>>> lexicon I think, as it discounts any agency on the one being "influenced."
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this. Is there a distinction
>>>> which is usually brought to bear here?
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Andy Blunden (Erythrós Press and Media) http://www.erythrospress.com/
>>>> Orders: http://www.erythrospress.com/store/main.html#books
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> Martin Packer, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor
>> Psychology Department
>> Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA 15282
>> (412) 396-4852
>>
>> www.mathcs.duq.edu/~packer/ <http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/%7Epacker/>
>>
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>>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden (Erythrós Press and Media) http://www.erythrospress.com/
> Orders: http://www.erythrospress.com/store/main.html#books
>
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