Re: [xmca] sense/meaning and the translation of myishlenie i rech

From: Ana Marjanovic-Shane (
Date: Thu Jul 28 2005 - 16:18:53 PDT

Mike and all,
You have a point here. The closest translation of "Myshlenie I Rech", I
think should be "Thinking and Speech". -- both imply dynamic processes
more than stable structures.

Mike Cole wrote:

> Someone-- Michael?- Brought to mind the implications of different
> translations of LSV's Thought and Language (1934/1962/1986) such that
> in English in 1987
> it became Thinking and Speech and yet he translates it as Thought and
> speech.
> So interesting!
> As explained somewhere (the intro?) Norris Minnick (and Jim Wertsch, I
> think) argued that the title should be thinking and speech. After all,
> the usual word
> for language is yazik (tounge, also). And rech is a direct
> translation of speech. He gave up and gave a speech (rech). Language
> won't substitute.
> But what about Myishlenie? The verb form is Myshlit. Its a noun. So,
> how did it get to be a verb in English in 1987?
> We have an ambiguity in english when nouns and verbs trade places, and
> thinking/thought appears one of those places. "Tell me your thinking
> on this project" " Or, "Give some thoughts
> about this project" substitute pretty easily, yet one is, so to speak,
> in motion, -ing'ing along, a process. The other is a product, at least
> temporarily fixed. Thought and Speech works pretty good
> me, being an English speaker.
> Michael-- Is there variation in the translation into German?
> Not unlike the way the discussion of word and sense appears to be
> thought of by some of us.
> mike
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