Re: michal roth's intro; four contradictions and children's play

From: Wolff-Michael Roth (
Date: Fri Sep 24 2004 - 12:17:38 PDT

I don't think it would be fair to characterize my position as
Holzkampian in contrast to the one taken by Yrjö. If anything, I have
been attempting to see beyond what both KH and YE saw as differences
between their respective positions. If there are true contradictions in
these theoretical accounts, they should take us to work toward change
in the spirit of a truly dialectical approach (see Il'enkov).

On 24-Sep-04, at 11:58 AM, Judith Vera Diamondstone wrote:

> Just as a general comment on representing activity from the
> Holzkamp/Roth perspective, it would be neat to embed an account like
> the one we are discussing in a discussion that unpacks more of the
> "objective" conditions -- that shows more of curriculum, tells more
> about the university-school arrangement, and shows more specifically
> the relations between distal/proximal contradictions. Doing so would
> probably necessitate focus on "the other side of the coin" ---
> foregrounding the co-ordination, and the conditions that made it
> possible, among the different players. I wonder what a discourse
> analysis tracing terms like "respect" across situations & social
> actors might turn up. I'd also like to see more of the curricular
> content and how, specifically, the different students worked with it.
> Again, I am just musing on how to press for yet more theoretical
> elucidation this very engaging account of what appears to be a very
> promising educational collaboration...
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: 9/24/2004 2:23 PM
> Subject: RE: michal roth's intro; four contradictions and children's
> play
> Why people do things. Reading and re-reading about Critobal and Ya-meer
> and listening to the voices in this discussion, I am trying to think
> about
> the dynamics of change and, if not "causes," then pivotal events. I am
> also trying to think about proximal causes, Holzkamp/Roth point versus
> more distal contradictions (use value/exchange value) vis a vis
> identitities and change.
> The other side of the coin from conflict is coordination. There is
> often
> intense positive, emotional impact of coordination, "flow," which in
> this
> case appears to hinge upon respect. Respect.grade.self understanding.
> understanding of other cumulate in identities?
> Gotta run, but there is a lot to think about here. Food for the mind
> while my butt is on the road!
> mike

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