[Xmca-l] Re: Andy Blunden on unit of analysis and Huw on cognition
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Tue Sep 8 17:35:10 PDT 2020
As I said, Martin, "I don't know Husserl very well." I read
him a little over 20 years ago, following on from reading
Hegel, and was disappointed by the subjective turn. I am
sure you are right, and that my reaction was "exaggerated a
bit." A study of experience necessarily includes a element
of scepticism about the existence of the objects perceived,
that is true. Hegel dealt with this by locating the concepts
acquired by the individual in the way of life in which the
subject acts and thinks. In this way the moment of
scepticism is located in the entire way of life and ways of
life are necessarily realistic as totalities. This is not
something I saw in Husserl, so his scepticism falls back to
that of Kant. At that point, I laid Husserl aside, ... but
of course that was probably premature. I do recognise that
Phenomenology did go on to grapple with social action as
best it could.
andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYkX0M2fJA$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYmY4ICBaA$ >
On 9/09/2020 7:22 am, Martin Packer wrote:
> Andy, I think you’ve exaggerated a bit the differences
> between Husserl and Dewey. Husserl’s views of the goal of
> phenomenology changed over his life. (And his students,
> who included Gustav Shpet, Edith Stein, and Roman
> Ingarden, each had their own views.) But broadly speaking,
> Husserl considered phenomenology to be the study of
> experience from a first-person perspective. That was not
> an unreasonable idea, given the way we generally think
> about experience, as a phenomenon of subjectivity. As
> such, phenomenology is an investigation that certainly
> includes the ‘what’ of experience: the objects that a
> person perceives, thinks about, feels about, and acts
> towards. But Husserl wanted to bracket any presuppositions
> about the *existence* of those objects in order to focus
> on and understand the active, constituting role that he
> believed consciousness plays in any and every experience.
> That’s to say, he didn’t believe that an experience is
> simply a passive copy or reflection of its object.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>> On Sep 7, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know Husserl very well, Henry, but from what I
>> have read he is a Phenomenologist, that, is he aims to
>> make a science of the study of pure, subjective thought
>> forms. As such he is completely at odds with Dewey who
>> explained the “double-barrelled” nature of the concept of
>> ‘an experience’ in that “it includes/what/ men do and
>> suffer, /what/ they strive for, love, believe and endure,
>> and /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways in which
>> they do and suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
>> imagine.” That is, in the well-known and invariably
>> misunderstood maxim of CHAT, an experience is a unity of
>> the person and the environment.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!T2IDTz6It4OIif-spsQdY7_CzubvEkE88dGcEmSRsPhg_U3cUrRLFakl8SrSgM_CnDYs0g$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!T2IDTz6It4OIif-spsQdY7_CzubvEkE88dGcEmSRsPhg_U3cUrRLFakl8SrSgM9_bvDb0w$>
>>
>> On 8/09/2020 12:21 pm, HENRY SHONERD wrote:
>>> Andy,
>>> I don’t know if you recall, but I introduced myself to
>>> you off list in April of 2013, at the encouragement of
>>> Natalia Gajdamaschko. I pestered you with questions
>>> until you told me to join the chat. I owe you some
>>> kindness for putting up with me. Here’s another
>>> question: Do Husserl and Dewey resonate at all with one
>>> another regarding “an experience”?
>>> Henry
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2020, at 6:20 PM, Andy Blunden
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Goodness! Thank you for your kind words, Henry. I feel
>>>> the weight of responsibility on my shoulders.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about an interview is that it is not a
>>>> lecture. The Q&A format means that it is the unity of
>>>> two minds. Evidently, "project" maybe important to me
>>>> because of my interest in social theory but that is not
>>>> where Anthony's and my mind meet, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about "project" is that it avoids the
>>>> ambiguity of "activity" - do you mean it like "there's
>>>> a lot of activity on this list" or "this activity is
>>>> aimed at making CHAT accessible." Mass noun or
>>>> countable noun? Plus I avoid all the baggage carried by
>>>> the word "activity" which leads to people telling me
>>>> that I don't understand what "activity" means. Plus
>>>> "project" really emphasises what is implicit in "an
>>>> activity" - that it is driven by an unfolding aim and
>>>> has the kind of subjectivity not normally imputed to an
>>>> activity, or a group. I don't believe that projects are
>>>> guided by "cognition," or at least that this is a
>>>> useful lens to understand activity. "Cognition" is
>>>> something we analysts abstract from activity. In John
>>>> Dewey's words: ‘an experience’ is an ‘original unity’,
>>>> not a combination: “The existence of this unity is
>>>> constituted by a single/quality/ that pervades the
>>>> entire experience in spite of the variation of its
>>>> constituent parts. This unity is neither emotional,
>>>> practical, nor intellectual, for these terms name
>>>> distinctions that reflection can make within it,”
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!Vy_0-fM1JnXDSWVjL-73cISms5hBR8csLKVmw2-QzFNJ3NCM5QBlQOrW0WMFrJ0oJ6r4tQ$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Vy_0-fM1JnXDSWVjL-73cISms5hBR8csLKVmw2-QzFNJ3NCM5QBlQOrW0WMFrJ3iK4VYyA$>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/09/2020 5:03 am, HENRY SHONERD wrote:
>>>>> Gente,
>>>>> It’s been more than a week since Anthony linked us to
>>>>> his interview of Andy Blunden. I’ve been doing some
>>>>> slow listening and thinking about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hands down the best. through best in Andy’s talk is
>>>>> perizhvanie, both individual and collective. His story
>>>>> about his own moment of empowerment as an engineer was
>>>>> inspiring. But in looking back on his work as a union
>>>>> rep, Andy recalled those who were broken in the work
>>>>> place, sought therapy and finally went on the dole. I
>>>>> assume it is very much the later kind of story that
>>>>> put the fire in the his belly as a lifelong Marxist.
>>>>>
>>>>> A quibble and a modest proposal. I have read more of
>>>>> Andy’s work than that of any other Vygotsky-inspired
>>>>> author, including Vygotsky. Based on my reading of
>>>>> Andy, I think that he has overlooked something in
>>>>> responding to Anthony’s questions: /Project as the
>>>>> unit of analysis for the social sciences./
>>>>>
>>>>> Another quibble and modest proposal. Huw, in the
>>>>> second interview with Anthony (the one liked below),
>>>>> asserts that “cognition is the conscious guiding
>>>>> aspect of activity”. If we can we substitute “project”
>>>>> for “activity” and recognize that affect is as much of
>>>>> a guide as intellect for any project, then we bring
>>>>> project and perizhivanie together in making sense of
>>>>> the human project.
>>>>>
>>>>> In communty
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2020, at 9:53 AM, Anthony Barra
>>>>>> <anthonymbarra@gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Straddling the Abstract and the Concrete -- with
>>>>>> Andy Blunden":
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/ec94eQSSX8E__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYkfg8DJXQ$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/ec94eQSSX8E__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMcOT5oGA$>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Researcher and chronicler Andy Blunden reflects on
>>>>>> his own relationship with Vygotsky, his role and
>>>>>> contributions to the Vygotsky-sphere, and some
>>>>>> developmental landmarks of his own. (Originally
>>>>>> published August 28, 2020)
>>>>>> Thanks again to Andy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, Anthony Barra
>>>>>> <anthonymbarra@gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huw Lloyd is an interesting guy and a gracious
>>>>>> conversation partner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He recently helped me close some (of the many)
>>>>>> gaps in my knowledge and understanding here:
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/4kspsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYl9mm-IMQ$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/4kspsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IOQe1eSLA$>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huw's commentary will likely be enjoyable even
>>>>>> for fellow experts, who could compare his answers
>>>>>> to what their own might be, as well as my
>>>>>> questions to what they might've asked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do feel a bit weird pushing my stuff here, but
>>>>>> at the same time, enough people have told me in
>>>>>> public and private that they enjoy the videos, so
>>>>>> I do like sharing them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (audio-only here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/hlspsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYmpWAjZ0A$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/hlspsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85INDZx1Ftw$>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Video description and Timestamps:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Researcher Huw Lloyd, fluent in numerous mental
>>>>>> models, is a good explainer of concepts --
>>>>>> including many I was completely unversed in. A
>>>>>> few threads run through the entirety of this
>>>>>> chat: development, self-awareness, and construing
>>>>>> an active orientation to any given situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SECTION 1: Our pathways to Vygotsky
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0:36 - Reflections on Huw's recent "Vygotsky and
>>>>>> Parenting" (https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/ymqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYl6DVxVrA$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/ymqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMmjZIOjA$>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:45 - Pros and cons of taking scholarly shortcuts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6:07 - Huw's arrival to Vygotsky, in part through
>>>>>> dissatisfaction elsewhere
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SECTION 2: Huw's ideas about Active Orientation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 16:38 - What is Active Orientation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 23:30 - Is Active Orientation a practice? (An
>>>>>> exercise in self awareness)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 31:58 - Active Orientation can be documented
>>>>>> (microgenesis research of Huw's)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SECTION 3: What is Developmental Education?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 40:37 - A primer on Davydov and Developmental
>>>>>> Education
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 46:07 - Empirical thinking vs. Theoretical thinking
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 50:23 - Grokking the material and the History of
>>>>>> ideas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 52:59 - Problems are Good
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 55:40 - An illustrative lesson of Davydov's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:03:43 - Some key characteristics of
>>>>>> developmental education
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:07:41 - Crises, construals, and neoformations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:10:20 - The Desert Oak: a developmental TRIZ
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SECTION 4: Imagination and Confidence-building
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:16:07 - Imagination, flow, and problem-solving
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:24:10 - Systems and Design Ideas (TRIZ approach)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:30:22 - Earned, authoritative confidence: Your
>>>>>> tempered ideas are become Real
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:35:20 - The importance of problem-construal or
>>>>>> framing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:48:04 - Problem-creating, -solving, and
>>>>>> -construing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:53:51 - This is rich, highly concentrated
>>>>>> material (Foundational, generative, "unfoldable"
>>>>>> concepts)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:55:27 - Notational vs. developmental education
>>>>>> (and epistemology)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:57:10 - Final two questions (adult-development
>>>>>> & advice for problem-designers)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2:06:20 - Complex vs. complicated (and
>>>>>> self-regulation and distance learning)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2:09:46 - An idea for lunch (as promised:
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/bvqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYnpa00eEw$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/bvqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IMu2Pv5mA$>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> References:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/5vqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYlSr5h6Hw$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/5vqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85INPU-JiCw$>
>>>>>> - "A Study of Active Orientation" (brief
>>>>>> introduction)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/2xqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYlk7aSdmQ$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/2xqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IPBkikkbw$>
>>>>>> - "TRIZ: a Powerful Methodology for Creative
>>>>>> Problem Solving"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/dxqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!U4EAcxwt3mcEh1KZUYNTjDzjHix0oTl2ZHTivTil-KH8vQ7F7gUuUUbu3dvAvYm3VBe-wA$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/dxqpsz__;!!Mih3wA!S33cTVIkU7U9v9FUG591iGWUqwJtBKNyXVcYA2nA_QKFGGvaUmFJKVsQ-Ah85IOUymWXPg$>
>>>>>> - "Going with the Flow: How to Engage Boys (and
>>>>>> Girls) in Their Literacy Learning"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200909/0045debe/attachment.html
More information about the xmca-l
mailing list