[Xmca-l] Re: ...kind of like guarding Lenin's tomb

Fri May 29 11:33:11 PDT 2020

Annalisa,

Here is the short clip that sparked this thread: Mike Cole discussing
Manuilenko's tomb-guarding experiment: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutA68YDL0g$ 

I like it very much.

Enjoy ~

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 12:57 PM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu> wrote:

> Hello all needle threaders,
>
> The mention of competition and its connection to capitalism is poignant,
> Greg.
>
> I have memories as a child loathing win-lose games, even if I won, I hated
> it. Because it meant making my peers feel bad that they lost.
>
> I trust that there are likely a lot of kids who have feelings like this
> but there is no channel by which to reveal this because kids don't
> communicate well when they are young, because they may not even know
> themselves how they feel about something, much less to communicate it. This
> is why adult interactions is so valuable, for being able to discuss
> complexities like that (at least complex in the mind of the child).
>
> Our culture rewards zero-sum games more than it should, but is there in
> existence a radar-like tool to detect other complicated feelings that come
> up about comparison with peers or other models that children are measured
> by as they develop?
>
> One of the reasons I loved Sesame Street (and still do) is that there was
> a modeling for talking about difficult feelings through the muppets and
> their relationships with the real people (the adult actors) and with each
> other: Think Ernie and Bert.
>
> The message that is so valuable is "You are OK as you are, no matter how
> different, no matter what you can or cannot do, you are still OK."
>
> Which I would guess, if successful, would be internalized into:
>
> "I am OK as I am, no matter how different, no matter what I can or cannot
> do, I am still OK."
>
> When that message is possessed and deeply rooted, the individual child
> need not "have" confidence, if only because there is a distinction between
> "being" and "having."
>
> "Having" can be taken away. "Being" is, well .... being!
>
> Might someone could clue me in on the game Guarding Lenin's Tomb? I have
> never heard of this game.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Annalisa
> ------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2020 9:44 AM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: ...kind of like guarding Lenin's tomb
>
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
> Yes, to win as in to gain, which is about mastery.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=win__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutC_J5qNhg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=win__;!!Mih3wA!TvIqQYgJ5qPvUOa7EbV5KXcJmE-jbwNNru2fEGAQrxLjls5vdL9jGSJLBzhzZAImpjMWHA$>
>
> And, incidentally,
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=confidence__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutCDSZ5UNw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=confidence__;!!Mih3wA!TvIqQYgJ5qPvUOa7EbV5KXcJmE-jbwNNru2fEGAQrxLjls5vdL9jGSJLBzhzZAItvdbE3w$>
>
> But as a life goal, that is something else beyond psychology. :)
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
>
> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 16:31, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes.  And winning is generally more fun than losing -- all other things
> being equal.
>
> What do you think of this quotation? I think it's interesting: "Imagine
> that the goal of life isn't to win the game. The goal of human life, in
> some sense, is to with the *set* of all possible games; in order to win the
> set of all possible games, you don't need to win any particular game. You
> have to play in a manner that ensures that you'll be invited to play more
> and more games."
>
> The full context is here; it's a very quick read (a youth sports
> anecdote), like 90 seconds or so: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bit.ly/2XdQEFF__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutD0qcuLrw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bit.ly/2XdQEFF__;!!Mih3wA!XzDIU8Xkoo3EdYtzN9jRUtNPmuN6pIXRX7nTJQPXKsuc_xKReATPNseCToxtzmO52yUEng$>
>
> Thanks again, Huw.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:10 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Anthony,
>
> If a child predicates their enjoyment on winning, then they will tend to
> avoid anything that they believe casts them in a bad light. They end up
> being over-confident about some activities and under-confident about
> others. Whereas what is sought is true confidence which comes from
> understanding the nature of understanding, and is best supported by
> enjoyment in doing. The enjoyment-in-winning is an external,
> frequently superficial, measure, the enjoyment-in-doing is one's own
> internal measure which carries its own sense and meaning.
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
>
>
> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 14:27, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Huw.
>
> I have a six year old too. Why might a disinclination to be cast as a
> weaker performer be problematic? I am interested but also think I might be
> missing or misunderstanding something.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 5:48 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> There's an impressive account by Smirnova of a preschool class coming to
> voluntarily take control of their quietude via a game of "who woke teddy?"
> in JREEP 52/4.
>
> A challenge I have wth a near 6 year old is his emphasis upon wanting to
> win games and consequent shyness with activities that cast him as a weaker
> performer.
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
> On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 18:52, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> Great question (s), Anthony!
>
> Of the shiny top of my head I can identify another. This is from Vivian
> Paley.
> It explicitly answers the question of "is this a once and for all change,
> or a bud that sprouted in just this one rare
> circumstance."
> Attached.
> mike
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 9:53 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear educators of XMCA -
>
> I think I have a good question this time!  To avoid redundancy, I searched
> the archives for answers and found an interesting thread from ten years
> ago.  But I still want to ask this here:
>
> What kinds of "guarding Lenin's tomb" type activities have you thought of
> and/or used in order to support development?
>
> In this great little 2-minute clip, Mike Cole discusses Manuilenko's
> tomb-guarding experiment: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutA68YDL0g$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!QnyDKMmlGuxChw2AzXV_HvcVQlE8oeBivNWuK6vHi8K43tjlH2D14vGQwFlSGpHZ8pMhQA$>
>
> One can't help but try to think up other types of games (e.g., the Quiet
> Game on long car rides) that can function as cultural tools when the
> biological alone aren't cutting it.
>
> On a side note, the short video brought a number of questions to mind for
> me, such as:
> - where are 'the buds'?
> - what are the qualitative reorganizations here?
> - why are the buds (e.g, of volition) not yet present for the 3 year-olds,
> present for the 5 year-olds, and already flowered for the 8 year-olds?
> (ages are approximate, I know)
> - how temporary is the 5 year-olds' improved volition? Does it wear off?
> It is now 'activated' for good?
> - for the 8 year-olds, is volition fully developed for tasks such as
> standing still but still in the 'bud' stage for more demanding acts of will?
>
> But those side questions are not the target of this post. Instead, my
> question of the day is (I think a fun one):  What kinds of "guarding
> Lenin's tomb" type activities have you thought of and/or used in order to
> support development?  (Any age or stage or setting will do)
>
> Thank you,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> --
>
> "How does newness come into the world?  How is it born?  Of what fusions,
> translations, conjoinings is it made?" Salman Rushdie
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!Qwe3pRHKFQn2ZX2IjP-4NrnaYWzpp26D76r1a1ac_L-fVrp2GiCQYebNJP4LutDEgkzjFg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!X683eUcFW8gDsCvkDkihaUI2WefdNe3_4YRDVEalVu7OCe25J7bb83KhNPRCIbgr_8aUPQ$>
> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!X683eUcFW8gDsCvkDkihaUI2WefdNe3_4YRDVEalVu7OCe25J7bb83KhNPRCIbg2FBKvDg$>
> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
> Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>
>
>
>
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