[Xmca-l] Re: ...kind of like guarding Lenin's tomb

Fri May 29 09:38:44 PDT 2020

Thanks, Greg.

I am far from the clearest writer, true.  I think the "life as a series of
iterated 'games'" stuff is rooted in an evolutionary game theory approach,
but I'm really not qualified to comment on that much at all.  But I do
think the "try to play in a way that gets you invited back to the game"
stuff is nice; it also seems to be one of this listserv's many positive
traits (and likely one that has contributed to its vibrancy and
longevity -- people play nice here, sometimes aggressively, sometimes to
win, but from what I see almost always nicely -- and productively).

I don't think life is merely a series of games (literally or figuratively)
-- but the "game" filter does have its pros and cons, as does the "play"
filter, the "winners/losers" filter, and the "power" filter.  Each with its
costs and affordances.

Thanks again,

Anthony

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:42 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Anthony,
> Of course it would be best if you read her work before interviewing her.
>
> Lots of questions come to mind:
> -how does this connect with Vygotskyian theory?
> -can you describe some of the successes of the All Stars project?
> -what is social therapeutics?
> -what is "play" in adolescence? in adulthood?
>
> Also, I don't think that Lois is opposed to knowing and knowledge, she is
> just suggesting a "shift in focus". Again, probably best if you had a read
> of the book before speculating too much about what she *might* mean.
>
> -greg
>
> p.s. why does everything have to be about winning? (I would venture to say
> that Life is NOT a competition). Can't we imagine playing games that aren't
> about winning? I think that is a big part of Lois' project to get us out of
> the stupidity of thinking that joy is somehow connected to winning/losing.
> Perhaps that was your point Anthony, but it wasn't especially clear.
> And/or is this too "political" of a point since it is the beginnings of a
> critique of capitalism?
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:03 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Greg.
>>
>> As I scan through these impressive sites, I am drawn more to the All
>> Stars project, which reads as having no overt political slant.
>> Just a personal preference, though I am looking forward to reading more
>> and appreciate the heads-up.
>>
>> Also, this book blurb for *The Overweight Brain* is intriguing: "When
>> educators shift our focus from knowing to growing, we help young people be
>> all they can be." David J. Chard, PhD
>> I'd prefer "knowing AND growing" but am interested in reading more.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> P.S. What might be an interview question you would ask?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:04 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, I neglected the link to what I think is one of the most
>>> impressive projects that Lois has been involved in, the Allstars Project:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://allstars.org/__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiTLozg2GA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://allstars.org/__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkJ7WAFzuQ$>
>>>
>>> -greg
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:39 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anthony,
>>>>
>>>> Lois Holzman has done great work taking the power of "pretend" to older
>>>> kids (high schoolers) with the East Side Institute and her development of
>>>> social therapeutics. I find this to be particularly interesting since most
>>>> Vygotskians tend to focus on younger age kids (as can be seen in all the
>>>> examples mentioned thus far).
>>>>
>>>> Here is her personal page:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://loisholzman.org/__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiRqkPJv-Q$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://loisholzman.org/__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkIeM1JbCw$>
>>>> (Esp. note her book Vygotsky at Work and Play.)
>>>>
>>>> And here is the page of of the East Side Institute:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://eastsideinstitute.org/__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiSwgXOkpw$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://eastsideinstitute.org/__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkJq269Skw$>
>>>>
>>>> Would be great if you could get an interview with her - if you can
>>>> catch her!
>>>>
>>>> -greg
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 5:53 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Mike.  I like this Franklin kid, and I never would've met him
>>>>> without you sharing that chapter.
>>>>>
>>>>> And here, in the closing paragraph, is one great answer to my question
>>>>> about "guarding Lenin's tomb" type activities that likely support
>>>>> development:
>>>>> "Suddenly I recognize the difference between telling a child he must
>>>>> share and saying, 'Pretend you are a boy who knows how to share.'  The
>>>>> first method announces that a child has done something wrong. 'Pretend'
>>>>> disarms and enchants: it suggests heroic possibilities for making changes,
>>>>> just as in the fairy tales."
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope we'll hear more ideas (be they role-playing or anything else)
>>>>> from many others on this listserv.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks everyone ~
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I've done a lot of role-playing with middle and high school
>>>>> students, mainly via in-role writing, which they tend to enjoy and succeed
>>>>> at -- but I really can't evaluate it from a development perspective, or
>>>>> more specifically from a development-of-higher-psychological-functions
>>>>> perspective.  Anyhow, a snapshot is here, and it's something that can
>>>>> likely be amended for any age: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/upoxpz__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQFPExqNA$ 
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/upoxpz__;!!Mih3wA!TUH9TLwmfw8pwJ5lHRr3-kPrfEl6T5CLUAQdZ11uTtm67tXMvbgGUy1AZFkuhNIO6Lr5Dw$>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:52 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Great question (s), Anthony!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of the shiny top of my head I can identify another. This is from
>>>>>> Vivian Paley.
>>>>>> It explicitly answers the question of "is this a once and for all
>>>>>> change, or a bud that sprouted in just this one rare
>>>>>> circumstance."
>>>>>> Attached.
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 9:53 AM Anthony Barra <
>>>>>> anthonymbarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear educators of XMCA -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I have a good question this time!  To avoid redundancy, I
>>>>>>> searched the archives for answers and found an interesting thread from ten
>>>>>>> years ago.  But I still want to ask this here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What kinds of "guarding Lenin's tomb" type activities have you
>>>>>>> thought of and/or used in order to support development?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In this great little 2-minute clip, Mike Cole discusses Manuilenko's
>>>>>>> tomb-guarding experiment: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQW_VUgTg$ 
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!QnyDKMmlGuxChw2AzXV_HvcVQlE8oeBivNWuK6vHi8K43tjlH2D14vGQwFlSGpHZ8pMhQA$>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One can't help but try to think up other types of games (e.g., the
>>>>>>> Quiet Game on long car rides) that can function as cultural tools when the
>>>>>>> biological alone aren't cutting it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a side note, the short video brought a number of questions to
>>>>>>> mind for me, such as:
>>>>>>> - where are 'the buds'?
>>>>>>> - what are the qualitative reorganizations here?
>>>>>>> - why are the buds (e.g, of volition) not yet present for the 3
>>>>>>> year-olds, present for the 5 year-olds, and already flowered for the 8
>>>>>>> year-olds? (ages are approximate, I know)
>>>>>>> - how temporary is the 5 year-olds' improved volition? Does it wear
>>>>>>> off? It is now 'activated' for good?
>>>>>>> - for the 8 year-olds, is volition fully developed for tasks such as
>>>>>>> standing still but still in the 'bud' stage for more demanding acts of will?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But those side questions are not the target of this post. Instead,
>>>>>>> my question of the day is (I think a fun one):  What kinds of "guarding
>>>>>>> Lenin's tomb" type activities have you thought of and/or used in order to
>>>>>>> support development?  (Any age or stage or setting will do)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "How does newness come into the world?  How is it born?  Of what
>>>>>> fusions, translations, conjoinings is it made?" Salman Rushdie
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQb8mUaCg$ 
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!X683eUcFW8gDsCvkDkihaUI2WefdNe3_4YRDVEalVu7OCe25J7bb83KhNPRCIbgr_8aUPQ$>
>>>>>> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!X683eUcFW8gDsCvkDkihaUI2WefdNe3_4YRDVEalVu7OCe25J7bb83KhNPRCIbg2FBKvDg$>
>>>>>> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>> Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiR2LgMkxA$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkJKQTm90A$>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQq8Rn2Bg$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkIwDoB0xw$>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiR2LgMkxA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkJKQTm90A$>
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQq8Rn2Bg$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QkjU-77lpmDqgQ5M0uKTjdBSHgpGnUia75S5I6QL1XNm2fMacxyYygNM8x2aFkIwDoB0xw$>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiR2LgMkxA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!SmC7mVkbNzBF6a9N8zlzr8PqBf50lSPgkDPazwZNuAEG9t64Vqncu1v4mR9Pa6t-WzUMOw$>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!WIDggX7mtaFmGO-waiLMiPwYEUeBNM_dUkervfPfYa3F8pEuclg2Bb7K_KadbiQq8Rn2Bg$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!SmC7mVkbNzBF6a9N8zlzr8PqBf50lSPgkDPazwZNuAEG9t64Vqncu1v4mR9Pa6vSg5fWQw$>
>
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