[Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Wed May 13 18:55:31 PDT 2020
I should have reported progress with my question.
Jim Wertsch responded to me on email and Mike Cole Skyped me
and between these two I have a very rich history of the
usage of this term and the various nuances it acquired and
shed, and Mike has put the article Martin referred to on his
academia.edu page for us all to read.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.academia.edu/43037735/Sociocul_tural_studies_of_rnind_Edited_by__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGr6Y2oI9g$
As ever, XMCA has proved to be a bottomless mine of wisdom.
Thank you.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGqUcVpkyg$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGoS67wBRQ$ >
On 14/05/2020 1:38 am, Charles Bazerman wrote:
> Thank you Anthony for the interesting question and link.
> The way I see this issue is that Vygotskian work
> attempts to understand human activity multi-dimensionally
> (or even better holistically, trying to reunite what the
> emergence of various parochial disciplines have
> pulled apart for analysis of the separate dimensions).
> The different terms that Veresov points out as contending
> are simply foregrounding those sets of components that are
> most salient to the particular analyst at that moment. To
> those we might add other elements that Vygotsky was
> interested in such as consciousness and language and
> experience and mediation (and even economics and human
> knowledge and education lurk in the background, as well as
> human neurodiversity as well as materialities of the
> experienced world). That is the wonder of Vygotsky, even
> though he may have developed some of the components more
> than others and he was acting nominally as a
> psychologist--yet his approach allows the integration of
> all these components.
>
> I therefore use different conjunctions of terms depending
> on what I am talking about, and I see activity as the
> overarching term--though this does not necessarily mean
> triangles all the time. Rather activity is humans in
> motion, mobilizing multiple internal and external
> resources in situations.
>
> While I would like some stability in terms, right now our
> different concerns and issues leave salience mutable. And
> I am not yet comfortable in being terminally enlisted into
> another scholar's transient saliencies.
>
> BTW, I see another related, parallel attempt at
> reintegrating the social sciences in the pragmatist
> project which has at times been in communication with the
> activity theory project (see my paper "Practically
> Human"). This project also never settled on a coherent
> set of terms and stable concepts.
>
> Chuck
> ----
> די פאַרייניקטע שטאַטן איז אַ פאָלק פון ימאַגראַנץ
> الولايات المتحدة هي أمة من المهاجرين
> Los Estados Unidos es una nación de inmigrantes.
> The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
> History will judge.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGraddv37w$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSDGY6tLw$>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGpCD0cKNg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSePA_SrQ$>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGoTInzQ0Q$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoRwwTwk4Q$>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:08 AM Anthony Barra
> <anthonymbarra@gmail.com <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Interesting question (and follow-ups) here. Thanks, Andy.
>
> While not 100% related, I wonder if this brief,
> 2-minute excerpt adds any value:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGpcpcFRTg$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!WLyceskZQL4AGQL-pVuwd-RH-yfvzQvsIVerMU367Nw8BZjwVLHdZ94SZfyfIX_sfjyW7w$> "Pros
> and Cons of (terminological) Diversity"
>
> As a non-expert, I can empathize with Nikolai's main
> point, but I'm not so sure the cons outweigh the pros
> here.
>
> But what WOULD happen if a terminological consensus
> was formed -- could Vygotsky's theory (and
> methodology), in fact, be definitively defined? If
> so, would the benefits of doing so outweigh the
> constraints?
> I'm guessing this is an old conversation, and maybe
> even stale, but I'm more outsider than insider and
> don't really know.
>
> Thank you for any insight.
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM Martin Packer
> <mpacker@cantab.net <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>> wrote:
>
> I had assumed you were looking for uses earlier
> than Jim Wertsch’s, Andy.
>
> Jim used the term in titles in 1989 too. And in
> the introduction to this book he, along with Pablo
> del Rio and Amelia Alvarez, explain why in their
> view it’s the best term:
>
> Wertsch, J. V., del Río, P., & Alvarez, A. (Eds.).
> (1995). /Sociocultural studies of mind./ Cambridge
> University Press.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>> On May 12, 2020, at 11:13 PM, Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for their help. It all went
>> into the mix. Indeed, the term seems to have
>> migrated from Spanish to English and the word
>> "sociocultural" became popular in 1990, and it
>> seems that Jim Wertsch is the fellow who
>> triggered the explosion in "sociocultural
>> psychology" with "Voices of the mind : a
>> sociocultural approach to mediated action
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldcat.org/title/voices-of-the-mind-a-sociocultural-approach-to-mediated-action/oclc/797855062&referer=brief_results__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWDMZtFSg$>"
>> published by Harvard University Press in 1991.
>>
>> Although "sociocultural" seems to be most widely
>> associated with "context dependence," Wertsch's
>> reference to "mediated action" in the title of
>> this book makes it clear that for him "context"
>> referred to the signs and artefacts mediating action.
>>
>> Thanks again to all
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWcr53a1g$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDW3ivveVA$>
>>
>> On 13/05/2020 12:26 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>> Andy--
>>>
>>> Go to to the Google N-gram site itself.
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGpp4aQdkw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld90MDkv2Mw$>
>>> Then do your own n-gram for "sociocultural
>>> psychology". If you set the years you'll get
>>> better granularity in the document search.
>>> On the bottom of the n-gram, there are some
>>> dates in blue--when you click on them, you
>>> should get a list of all the books used in the
>>> search.
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>> manual and a manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGqRBgHmgw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92Vl0flPg$>
>>>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGpzsougQQ$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92EeQenpA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Martin Packer
>>> <mpacker@cantab.net <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The earliest use of the term ‘sociocultural’
>>> I’ve been able to find in English is this:
>>>
>>> A sociocultural psychology, by Rogelio
>>> Diaz-Guerrero
>>>
>>> In "Chicano psychology", 1977 - Academic Press
>>>
>>> Diaz-Guerrero was Mexican psychologists
>>> whose publications in Spanish use the term
>>> ‘sociocultural’ frequently.
>>>
>>> The 2nd edition of Chicano Psychology is
>>> available in Google books, and Diaz-Guerrero
>>> has a chapter in it, but titled The
>>> psychological study of the Mexican.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Andy Blunden
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That graph from Google shows that usage of
>>>> the term took off in 1988. How do we find
>>>> out who wrote what in 1988?
>>>>
>>>> And Google also tell us that
>>>> "Socioculturaltheory grew from the work of
>>>> seminalpsychologistLev Vygotsky, who
>>>> believed that parents, caregivers, peers,
>>>> and the culture at large were responsible
>>>> for developing higher-order functions.
>>>> According to Vygotsky, learning has its
>>>> basis in interacting with other people,"
>>>> together with a reference. So that is nice.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5i1rCBdtQ$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5gDytDZfw$>
>>>>
>>>> On 13/05/2020 11:30 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>> Andy:
>>>>>
>>>>> I did a Google N-gram on it. You probably
>>>>> thought of doing this too, but here's what
>>>>> I got.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGo_H-wlJQ$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZEmjetMCg$>"
>>>>> width=900 height=500 marginwidth=0
>>>>> marginheight=0 hspace=0 vspace=0
>>>>> frameborder=0 scrolling=no
>>>>>
>>>>> So it all starts around 1960. At first I
>>>>> thought this probably referred to the
>>>>> Hanfmann and Vakar "Thought and Language",
>>>>> but when I looked the only books that used
>>>>> the term were sports psychology books. The
>>>>> big uptick after 1992 is Vygotsky though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, this is all English only. I am
>>>>> sure you will find very different results
>>>>> in German, where "cultural historical
>>>>> psychology" is the trend identified with
>>>>> Dilthey, Spranger, and neo-Kantianism
>>>>> generally.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>
>>>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>>>> manual and a manifesto.
>>>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGqRBgHmgw$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZFjmWjmLg$>
>>>>>
>>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov:
>>>>> /L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works/
>>>>> /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!R2PQRv7SmtSpShBHHVPDEjIG1-ol_VEYh22ETbbkrOTaZbmV95HyZtHr1MBppGpzsougQQ$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZGMmypSYw$>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:43 PM Andy
>>>>> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
>>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone tell me when and with whom
>>>>> the term "sociocultural psychology"
>>>>> originated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASisbYxsxw$>
>>>>> Home Page
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASiXKr5OJw$>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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