[Xmca-l] Re: Emotion as "Sputnik"

Wed Jun 17 19:10:11 PDT 2020

Hello David,

I'm a little perplexed about the connection of learning and arm-wrestling. I must have missed something.

I don't mean to be pointed when I say that particular "lesson" seems fairly sexist to me, in the sense that it seems to rely on sex and violence as motivators.

It reminds me of a chapter I read in The Moral Animal by Robert Wright. He discusses about how no one (that is, men) objects to the pattern of men's arousal by centerfolds, but then laugh when male turkeys will try to mate with inanimate objects, especially if the object is a female turkey head (sans body) being held by a string at the approximate height of an actual female turkey (This was done by experiment).

I actually witnessed something of this turkey behavior. I mean this literally! There are wild turkeys roaming in Berkeley and one was trying to get it on with a parked shiny black car, on which I think it saw its own reflection, go figure. It was dancing all over with its tail feathers in a perfect arc.

I'm not sure how arm wrestling creates sputnik emotional response you are hoping for, but maybe I am missing something.

But to quell an urge that I had not completed something I was trying to remember the system of understanding I had referenced in an earlier post.

To adequately complete my discussion about knowledge and how one acquires it, I had a discussion with my teacher to refresh my memory.

I feel that it has a lot of Vygotsky in it, even though it was known before he ever came along. It's not a 1:1 ontology, but taken as a whole, they mirror one another.

In the texts of the Vedanta, there is always a form that is followed, which can function like a nutrition label on a box at the supermarket.

It's called "anubandha chatusthaya" which means the four-fold connection. Usually this is present in the first verse of a text, and it is done quite creatively depending on the author or genesis of the text.

Anubandha chatushtaya is made up of these four items:

+ Adhikari
+ Vishaya
+ Phulam
+ Sambandha

Adhikari in this context means "the student" or more generally, "the audience", who is this teaching for?

Vishaya is the subject matter, and is always stated clearly up front.

Phulam means literally "fruit" but in this context means the result or consequence from learning the subject matter. What can I do or what will I know once I know?

Sambandha means the connection between the Vishaya and the Phulam.

For example to learn cooking, one might find a cookbook. The Adhikari is the one who wants to learn to cook. The Vishaya of the cookbook is cooking. The Phulam is not to read a cookbook from cover to cover, but to actually know how to cook something good to eat. The Sambandha in this case is that if the Adhikari appropriately follows the recipes in the cookbook (Vishaya), using the appropriate ingredients and cooking utensils, pans etc. the Adhikari will be able to enjoy the cooked food (Phulam) as presented by recipes in cookbook.

All texts must state the anubandha chatushtaya up front.

But there's more to this, because the intro of the text just reveals the relevance of the subject matter, what about the adhikari?

Similiarly there is a chatushtaya for the adhikari. That is called the Sadhana Chatushtaya. That means the four traits present in the adhikari.

Sadhana in a religious sense means "spiritual practice" but more generally it can mean the state of mind or development of the student. I think you'll see once I've outlined it that it can be successfully applied more generally to all contexts.

The four items in Sadhana Chatushtaya are

+ Viveka
+ Vairagya
+ Shatsampat
+ Mumukshutvam

Viveka means "discrimination" in the Vedanta it is the ability to discern what is real from what is not. But more generally, it's the ability for someone to discern "I want to know something" or "this is interesting to me." For example, some car afficionados want to know all there is about Corvairs, but could care less about Cameros. There is viveka there, not at a very high level, but it is there, just the same. One might call it Chevrolet viveka.

Vairagya means "dispassion." In a spiritual sense this has to do with having non-attachment to the world and its aversions or attractions. It has to do with maturity. More generally, we can agree that kids who are calm and naturally at ease will learn better than those that are distracted or upset. There is an openness in a student that possesses vairagya, but not a passive openness.

Shatsampat is a little tricky to translate. It's sort of a shorthand that literally translates to "six virtues," and are considered necessary to bring equilibrium to the mind and emotions. These are

+Shama,
+ Dama,
+ Uparati,
+ Titiksha,
+ Shraddha,
+ Samadhana.

These traits relate to the innate (as-though) conduct of the student. It has to do with external conduct as well. The more external practice of a virtue, the more internally it anchors in the student, which has an appearance of being innate, when this appearance is rooted in maturity and development. The traits feed on themselves, because the more internalized the more external expression, etc. A virtuous cycle ensues.

Shama roughly translates to tranquility. This is about temperment of mind. Some students shine with shama, they have ready minds and take little effort to teach. A student's temperament requires relative peace so her mind is available to learn. Everyone wants shama.

If we don't have shama then we want dama. It pertains to calming of the senses. This has to do with the student's ability to disengage from excitement. In other words to pay attention and act appropriately even if they don't feel like it, it is a recognition of one's self control and a value for discipline. We practice dama until shama happens.

Uparati literally means a resting state, but it pertains to withdrawl from opposites, an ability for reflection, that space between disengaging and engaging. To contrast, partisanship has no space for uparati, because to be partisan is to be grasping a side without an ability to let go, or else being averse to the other side with the same level of passion or distraction. Uparati is a kind of objectivity.

Titiksha is forebearance. I love saying titiksha. It's a fun word to pronounce. Titiksha is when you have to make do with a difficult situation that you can't change, but you soldier on despite that. You change it if you can, but if you can't, you don't let that deter you. You let it go and carry on, and not with a stiff upper lip, but a relaxed one, because it is expressed without worry or tension. For example, let's say you plan to attend a lecture for which you've waited months to see. You get there early, to get a good seat, only to learn the lecturer is late, and the person sitting next to you is snapping chewing gum. A student with titiksha knows there's nothing to be done about the lecturer being late, but doesn't let it upset and may even tell himself, "This is just creating more wonderful anticipation!" As far as the snappy gumchewer, the student may decide to move to another spot, but if that's not possible, just ignore the neighbor, knowing that if he didn't, it would ruin the entire lecture that he waited months to hear. It's making the best of it. What you would do in this situation expresses your level of titiksha. We could all benefit from more titiksha right now, given the pandemic.

Shraddha is "faith" but not as understood in a religious Christian sense. It  is closer to "trust," or better, "faith pending verification." For example, when I attend a cooking class I have shraddha that I will learn cooking. I'm not going to learn how to change the flywheel of my transmission or how evaluate quadratic equations. Fractions maybe, but no algebra! I also trust the teacher has the ability to teach me cooking. Otherwise, why should I be in this class? That is what is meant by faith present in the adhikari.

The last is Samadhana, and this pertains to focus. One's ability to concentrate and listen despite distractions. It's a little different than dama, in that it has to do with skill, but it can also have to do with preparedness to absorb what is being taught.

What is interesting of course is how these six virtues in the adhikari will germinate and mature and contribute to more of the same the more they are practiced, whether consciously or not.

The last connection necessary in the student is mumukshutwam, which means "desire for freedom". In the Vedanta this pertains to the desire to no longer suffer, but in a learning context it translates into being the person who is now more free from knowing than not knowing the topic. In this sense it means the desire for the fruit of knowing something, or a freedom from ignorance. If I learn how to drive my father's stickshift, I'll be able to take my friends to the movies. That is a kind of mumukshutwam.

The student being appropriately prepared is like the earth being fertile enough to germinate the seeds. So adhikaritwam is very important in successful learning. If the student isn't ready, nothing works.

The well-known aphorism "If the student is ready the teacher appears," does not just mean that a person who teaches materializes from thin air, but that the student's preparedness dictates the appropriate teacher for that particular student.

The last sambandha here is the connection of the anubandha chatushtaya to the sadanam chatushtaya, which has to do with the student's ability to discern what does this learning have to do with me? It's kind of the space between all these traits or conditions that are required to be present for learning to take place.

I feel that that is the emotional part, some of which is encapsulated in mumukshutwam. A trait, with proper handling by the teacher transforms into jignasu, which means "a desire to know" something. That desire is emotional. It is strong, like hunger.  It's there or not there. If it isn't there, no learning can happen.

I feel this is pretty comprehensive in defining how we humans learn and has not yet failed the test of time.

Jignasu, in tandem with the teacher's ability to inspire it in the student might very well translate as your sputnik of learning!

Kind regards,

Annalisa

________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 3:56 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Emotion as "Sputnik"

  [EXTERNAL]

Annalisa--

There are four book titles in the previous posts on Gerald Edelman: "Bright Air, Brilliant Fire", which is a general introduction, and the trilogy of "Topobiology", "Neural Darwinism" and the "Remembered Present".

Edelman won the Nobel Prize for work on immunoglobulins, and then got interested in a theory of consciousness based on a similar non-hierarchical understanding of the relationship of the parts to the whole in the nervous system. I remember hearing about it from his colleague Samir Zaki in London some time in the eighties. A lot of important academic lectures were open to the public back then. It kept me from reading the books for many years.

I did read Nuthall's work, but it was many years ago, so I much appreciated your re-presentation, Annalisa. I will look again after class today, though. I do like Anthony's videos, but I find myself listening to them as I wash the dishes or tidy my study. Nikolai is often just giving Anthony raw Vygotsky in a "just between you and me" format. This I prefer to get studying Vygotsky in print

 A lot of music video done in lockdown has this "in your face" format too (no distracting camera movement, no panoramic shots of cheering audiences, and of course absolutely no CGI or narrative). I think in both cases the representational and textual content is much the same, but the emotional tenor is quite different. That is what I wanted to study in the 2007 paper, and I think it would have been greatly complicated by a practice effect if we'd presented the task three times.

There were practical considerations too. As I said, most of the tasks were dramatic situations (in Nikolai's sense, in the sense of collision). For example, two boys have an arm-wrestling contest to see who will be able to take a girl to an amusement park in the textbook. When you do the same dramatic situation three times, you can't actually reverse it. We did reorganize this so that there was re-presentation of the task at three levels: eight boys wrestle in two pairs, then the four winners go to semi-finals, and finally two winners meet in finals. But Nikolai would say that it is no longer a dramatic collision, and I think that's right

David Kellogg
Sangmyung University

New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
Outlines, Spring 2020
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbPe906NxA$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!U5r7O6BqnUQluytUk0zY4vMMSRCZxVNSTuczXc_M2hraLWkIjlZQfXC2HdQxh_HzKqybNA$>
New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbNs1_UxbQ$ 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!U5r7O6BqnUQluytUk0zY4vMMSRCZxVNSTuczXc_M2hraLWkIjlZQfXC2HdQxh_EpxTe7Jg$>

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu<mailto:annalisa@unm.edu>> wrote:
Hi David, and venerable others paying a little bit of attention,

I realize I'm come lately on this reply, as my life does exist extra-screen and off the keyboard now and then, despite sheltering in place.

Let me clarify where I got the powers of three presentations. That was from following Phillip's links to Nuthall and reading his paper, hosted at New Zealand's Leaders in Education website. Nuthall if I can accept the paper on its face, experimentally established that when the students were presented with the object of knowledge (that's my phrase) three times they came to grasp it, they learned it.

No, that's not presenting the SAME lesson three times, and I would have thought dear David you had more imagination than that. I presume you didn't read that paper, so you didn't get the reference, or rather there was a distorted reference.

That's OK that happens to me many times with you various references to papers I haven't had the chance to read.

So let me just clarify my reference.

It's the material and how it is presented, three times. For example:

Let's take "ABC" as the object to be known.

(I say "known" and not "taught" very deliberately).

If I tell you first, "I'm going to teach you ABC."

Then I say, "A is the first letter; C is the third."

Then later, "B is always in the middle."

And then I say, "And by the way, CBA is backwards."

I have basically presented the object of knowledge three times, and now you know ABC to be ABC. You have learned it.

Perhaps this example is facile, but it is intended to illustrate what Nuthall learned and was able to replicate in the classroom. He also discovered that the experience of teachers had nothing to do with good learning outcomes. Doesn't this mean there is something biological going on (not totally, but an aspect that is determined in the dynamics of learning)?

I think this makes a lot of sense because we can sometimes make out that experienced teachers are like genius artists. They were touched by the finger of God, and they just "know" how to teach students. That's a fallacy. There can be some experienced teachers who are just bad teachers repeating bad habits and producing students with bad learning outcomes.

Perhaps it's better to say that bad teachers are fantastic at maintaining the ignorance of their students.

This is not to diminish experience acquired from years of teaching, but just to point out what Nuthall learned.

There is a methodology to learning, we call it teaching, but maybe our ontology is wrong. It's really learning that we need to focus upon and its dynamics. In a sense (as in sensing) this is determined, because we are biological creatures, after all.

That is not said with intention to somehow limit us, because one of our traits as biological creatures is that WE LEARN. That's a beautiful thing.

Knowledge is basically the sunlight that we reach toward and benefit from; it nourishes us. When we reflect this knowledge we become more than what we were before.

There is an appearance (it is illusory) that what we learn is "in our heads." Just as cognition is not isolated to neuronal synapses in the brain, knowledge is not stored there either. Knowledge is "out there" and when we reflect it accurately then the object of knowledge is known. We basically become as the thing we come to know (that is, we reflect it), and then we build on that to become what I will call "better reflectors". This is what learning is.

We polish the mirror until we shine. We do not add knowledge, rather we remove ignorance.

In Sanskrit, "guru" means "one who removes ignorance." This has a very deep reference I feel is lost in the west, where, thanks to Descartes and his atoms, we see knowledge as a constructed product made of parts. As if we are essentially sharing recipes on how to make that product, passing secrets from one group to another, one generation to another, and while doing it we make some alterations that make the product *better,* which we then call technological advancement. (Have you driven a Ford lately?)

This way of rending "products of knowledge" may support capitalism more than we realize, actually.

Because we are in a universe that functions with certain laws, an apparent order, otherwise how does it all stay together and not fly apart at the seams, there is an outward structure we rely upon in rendering our cognitive strategies and their consequences. Hence distributed cognition. By outward, I mean beyond our physical bodies, though this border is permeable. I do not intend to say it is hard and immutable. There is a unification with the environment that lend itself as a means of knowledge (though perhaps I am not coming up with the right words to explain what I mean), between the person and the environment.

Isn't that what an affordance is. The person *with* the environment.

I suppose my take on all this is that we are not looking at affordances in their total manifestation. In this discussion, we seem to give purpose to culture and how it impacts thought (or minds), but then we cull culture out and then revert to (a habit of thinking about) embodied beings that are deterministic machines or computers (here we go with mutual superimposition again!), language being our software programs that run the our algorithms that produce an outcome in isolation from the environment in which we exist.

That isn't how knowledge takes place.

I maintain (and continue to do so) there is something worth knowing from the ancients. They have it right. All I'm pointing out is the science supports it, for those who are understandably skeptical.

Also forgive me, however, I thought Giacomo Rizzolatti,Giuseppe Di Pellegrino, Luciano Fadiga, Leonardo Fogassi, and Vittoria Gallese at the Univerity of Parma were the ones to discover mirror neurons in the 80s and 90s in their experimentation on Macaque monkeys?

I was not in any way referencing "Edelman's theory of re-entrant ("mirror") neurons," as David phrased it. I'm not sure what that even means, so I took to Wikipedia and searched for Edelman.

I learned that there are many Edelmans in the world, or rather in Wikipedia, (500 pages worth!). I did find a book by Shimon Edelman called "Computing the Mind: How the Mind Really Works" (2008) and wondered if that is the same Edelman.

If so, this just supports what I say above. We are just reproducing more Cartesian notions by using the computer-as-metaphor.  To make it seem more "real" we add the word "really."

It's only "really" in the sense of "real-ly" like "badly," "succinctly," or even "syrup-y" not to leave out nouns. That doesn't mean it's real. If it's not real, then it's an illusion, right?

Sometimes reading a label that says "new and improved" doesn't mean it actually is "new" or "improved."

Kind regards,

Annalisa

________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com<mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:43 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Emotion as "Sputnik"

  [EXTERNAL]

Annalisa and Mike:

The Good Lord loves and rewards stubborn persistence, Annalisa. I am not sure kids do, though--will they want to sit through the same presentation three times? Or do you simply mean we use three different presentations so that we can randomize the order? Of course, "sputnik" didn't mean a satellite for Vygotsky--the first Sputniks were launched just before I was born, about twenty years after Vygotsky died. When I first translated Vygotsky, I thought a "sputnik" was a kind of sattelite God, Hermes to Zeus, Hanuman to Ram, Athena to Odysseus. But I notice that Russians use "sputnik" to just mean something like "companion", a fellow traveler, or a playmate. So instead of a kind of guardian angel, emotion functions as a bosom companion, growing up as the child grows.

I have--as usual--expressed myself rather poorly, Mike. (It will amuse you greatly to learn that I am teaching Communication this term!) When I said "represent" I did mean re-present. I actually meant exactly what Annalisa is describing. The teacher presents  the task (usually a dramatic situation of some kind) to a small group of "group leaders" and they do an example before the class begins. Those group leaders then return to their groups and present the task to the groups. We did video the results, but I thought the product wasn't nearly as interesting as analyzing the process.

Phillip: Halliday thought that Edelman's view of intelligence was the real biological foundation of his linguistics. And Annalisa is right, it did have a lot to do with Edelman's theory of re-entrant ("mirror") neurons. Andy has some trouble with the determinism of Vygotsky; I have a rather different problem with his hierarchical ideas of how functions are organized in a system. Edelman's books offer a pretty clear way out of that problem!

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 7:10 AM Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu<mailto:annalisa@unm.edu>> wrote:
David,

My stubborn persistence tells me that there is a way to bring in the dynamics of the pandemic crisis into your research design if we think about it long enough.

If emotion is the sputnik, as you reasonably hypothesize, then how can you create opportunities for sputnik to launch?

I maintain that this can be done with peer learning, because what counts is the cultural connection a student has with a peer compared to that cultural connection the student has with an instructor. Given in your description of social distancing, isn't there a way to compare and contrast learning that comes from "in person with social distancing" vis s vis learning that comes from "online learning"?

What you describe in your study is not what I was proposing. I was proposing how a student learns from a peer presenting the object of learning compared to the way a teacher might. And to use online vs in person learning venues to compare and contrast what we might call the perezhivanie in the learning moment.

If we might accept Nuthall's findings that learning happens when the underlying materials are presented at least three times, that should be a replicable structure that could bear fruit. It should be possible to determine and trace the emotional attachment that prevails in successful concept development.

How about:

  *   Have a control for presentations with underlying material offered three times (delivered via online learning?)
  *   Have a presentation with socially distant teacher presenting three times.
  *   Have a presentation with socially distant peer presenting three times.

Note the differences and similarities, as well as effectiveness and even how quickly a concept is absorbed and mastered by the learner.

What is the flaw in that design as you see it?

Kind regards,

Annalisa

________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com<mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:26 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Emotion as "Sputnik"

  [EXTERNAL]

Annalisa:

It's a great idea. But we are in the throes of "the dance" here in South Korea. Schools reopen. Then there's an outbreak. So the government closes schools again and we all go back into isolation for ten days. Then things reopen again, until the next outbreak. Even when schools are open, class size is greatly reduced, students are kept at least two meters apart and put in masks (we don't have those crazy hats that you see in China, but some schools use cubicles), and that would make it really hard to get peer teaching, much less collect data from peer teaching.

We did do something like what you propose way back in 2007--we just looked at the difference between the way a teacher presented the task and the way that the task was represented to groups.

Guk, I. and Kellogg, D. (2007). The ZPD and Whole Class Teaching: Teacher-led and Student-led Interactional Mediation in Tasks. Language Teaching Research 11,3 (2007); pp. 281–299

I suspect that if you read this study you will find it methodologically and even intellectually crude, particularly compared to what you propose, but for reasons I don't really understand it's the only thing we ever wrote that gets widely cited!)

Phillip:

Yes, ethnography would show precisely the kind of development we're interested in. But I think ethnography is better suited to studying stability than to studying crises. I get that crises are like anything else--they need to be highly contextured to be well textured. But because ethnography has a tendency to view the social and cultural and historical dimension exclusively through the language of the interpersonal, it's really hard to get genetic cross-sections that are broad enough and long enough to tell you how the system as a whole changes at "inflection points" (Joe Biden!) that are prepared for systematically precisely by those epochs we are naively thinking of as stable. (Ruqaiya Hasan's work was one of very few exceptions to this constraint....)

For example. One of the most important responses to the crisis revealed by George Floyd's murder has been to argue that the protests are too easily hijacked as pretexts for violence (see, for example, Boris Johnson's recent remarks on the descecration of Winston Churchill's statue in Parliament Square in London). This assumes, weirdly, a widespread tendency towards unmotivated violence that I have never actually observed in any fellow human being. I am pretty sure that Boris Johnson could probably find someone to produce ethnographic evidence that it exists, but I am equally sure that he couldn't ever produce evidence that it is systemic. Without that evidence, there is no way to predict or explain the fire next time.

Language stuff is not like this: every text is evidence of both the interpersonal and of what we are calling, non-redundantly, the socio-cultural.

David Kellogg
Sangmyung University

New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
Outlines, Spring 2020
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbPe906NxA$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03Im5e4BWA$>
New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbNs1_UxbQ$ 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03IavHbi-w$>

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:59 PM White, Phillip <Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu<mailto:Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>> wrote:
rather than a test, David, perhaps a rigorous ethnography along the lines of what Graham Nuthall did -

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbOknq3Jlw$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVv1FWd6Q$>
Graham Nuthall: Educational research at its best – researchED<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVv1FWd6Q$>
Graham Nuthall: Educational research at its best 26th February 2019 / in February 2019 / by Jan Tishauser. Professor Emeritus Graham Nuthall, an educational researcher from New Zealand, is credited with one of the longest series of studies of teaching and learning in the classroom that has ever been carried out. A pioneer in his field, his ...
researched.org.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://researched.org.uk__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03Jr3xUlgw$>

it was highly complex, but clearly from his finding emotions play a key role in concept formation.

he died about 16 years ago.  and oddly enough his work is still little appreciated.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbP-fUPBUw$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVKl43myA$>
The cultural myths and realities of teaching and learning / Pedagogical leadership / Pedagogy and assessment / Home - Educational Leaders<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVKl43myA$>
The cultural myths and realities of teaching and learning. by Graham Nuthall. Download this complete document (PDF 149 kB) Help with PDF files Overview. Graham Nuthall was Emeritus Professor of Education at the University of Canterbury in Christchurch.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz__;!!Mih3wA!XRGUsPSEzA3Xc_-8XbMG7rfaBUS4vQeMdAM3aSOA1z6yWINkfHXl_VZfKTlCfbOArTBDew$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kXD3p1_-w$>

Nuthall had participated in some of xmca conversation.

also, Gerard Edelman's work, which was the focus of an xmca conversation some time ago, points out that initials perceptions are initially sorted into one of two values - in layman's terms, like or dislike.  which is of course an emotional response.

Bright Air, Brilliant Fire: On the Matter of the Mind (Basic Books, 1992, Reprint edition 1993). ISBN<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVQcrjGHA$> 0-465-00764-3<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-465-00764-3__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kWgq0yeVA$>

in short, there are many ways of exploring student emotions i'd consider to be more reliable that trustworthy than tests.

phillip
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200618/5308fe51/attachment.html 