[Xmca-l] Re: Emotion as "Sputnik"

[mike cole]

David --

This sentence caught my attention.  I do not know how to interpret it.

We did do something like what you propose way back in 2007--*we just looked
at the difference between the way a teacher presented the task and the way
that the task was represented to groups.*

Not having read the Guk and Kellogg paper, I get hung up on the words what
the distinction is between *a teacher presenting a task*   and
the way that *the task was REpresented to the groups*.    Are you using
presented and represented informally as synonyms?

I am trying to imagine the interaction.

About tests and ethnographies.  Tests are snapshots. Its awfully difficult
to capture developmental change in a snapshot it is said.
Better a video clip?

mike



On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 2:32 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Annalisa:
>
> It's a great idea. But we are in the throes of "the dance" here in South
> Korea. Schools reopen. Then there's an outbreak. So the government closes
> schools again and we all go back into isolation for ten days. Then things
> reopen again, until the next outbreak. Even when schools are open, class
> size is greatly reduced, students are kept at least two meters apart and
> put in masks (we don't have those crazy hats that you see in China, but
> some schools use cubicles), and that would make it really hard to get peer
> teaching, much less collect data from peer teaching.
>
> We did do something like what you propose way back in 2007--we just looked
> at the difference between the way a teacher presented the task and the way
> that the task was represented to groups.
>
> Guk, I. and Kellogg, D. (2007). The ZPD and Whole Class Teaching:
> Teacher-led and Student-led Interactional Mediation in Tasks. Language
> Teaching Research 11,3 (2007); pp. 281–299
>
> I suspect that if you read this study you will find it methodologically
> and even intellectually crude, particularly compared to what you propose,
> but for reasons I don't really understand it's the only thing we ever wrote
> that gets widely cited!)
>
> Phillip:
>
> Yes, ethnography would show precisely the kind of development we're
> interested in. But I think ethnography is better suited to studying
> stability than to studying crises. I get that crises are like anything
> else--they need to be highly contextured to be well textured. But because
> ethnography has a tendency to view the social and cultural and historical
> dimension exclusively through the language of the interpersonal, it's
> really hard to get genetic cross-sections that are broad enough and long
> enough to tell you how the system as a whole changes at "inflection points"
> (Joe Biden!) that are prepared for systematically precisely by those epochs
> we are naively thinking of as stable. (Ruqaiya Hasan's work was one of very
> few exceptions to this constraint....)
>
> For example. One of the most important responses to the crisis revealed by
> George Floyd's murder has been to argue that the protests are too easily
> hijacked as pretexts for violence (see, for example, Boris Johnson's recent
> remarks on the descecration of Winston Churchill's statue in Parliament
> Square in London). This assumes, weirdly, a widespread tendency towards
> unmotivated violence that I have never actually observed in any fellow
> human being. I am pretty sure that Boris Johnson could probably find
> someone to produce ethnographic evidence that it exists, but I am equally
> sure that he couldn't ever produce evidence that it is systemic. Without
> that evidence, there is no way to predict or explain the fire next time.
>
> Language stuff is not like this: every text is evidence of both the
> interpersonal and of what we are calling, non-redundantly, the
> socio-cultural.
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Vz2RLDwuF5c-VkN7oR3CdJ-V3QqgDd5W1EaMzuybMqfsSJSpn5yA3c3-UR1gD2alEZHnog$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03Im5e4BWA$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Vz2RLDwuF5c-VkN7oR3CdJ-V3QqgDd5W1EaMzuybMqfsSJSpn5yA3c3-UR1gD2byzpMKmQ$ 
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03IavHbi-w$>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:59 PM White, Phillip <
> Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu> wrote:
>
>> rather than a test, David, perhaps a rigorous ethnography along the lines
>> of what Graham Nuthall did -
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!Vz2RLDwuF5c-VkN7oR3CdJ-V3QqgDd5W1EaMzuybMqfsSJSpn5yA3c3-UR1gD2Z0YvncGw$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVv1FWd6Q$>
>> Graham Nuthall: Educational research at its best – researchED
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://researched.org.uk/graham-nuthall-educational-research-at-its-best/__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVv1FWd6Q$>
>> Graham Nuthall: Educational research at its best 26th February 2019 / in
>> February 2019 / by Jan Tishauser. Professor Emeritus Graham Nuthall, an
>> educational researcher from New Zealand, is credited with one of the
>> longest series of studies of teaching and learning in the classroom that
>> has ever been carried out. A pioneer in his field, his ...
>> researched.org.uk
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://researched.org.uk__;!!Mih3wA!WC3HFOsQ9Q1YrwAJJr6OrmYucGeF3_YdxFPBKTpboOV_8GcFMYTJ5DXB6_eP03Jr3xUlgw$>
>>
>>
>> it was highly complex, but clearly from his finding emotions play a key
>> role in concept formation.
>>
>> he died about 16 years ago.  and oddly enough his work is still little
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!Vz2RLDwuF5c-VkN7oR3CdJ-V3QqgDd5W1EaMzuybMqfsSJSpn5yA3c3-UR1gD2Y0x5yD5w$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVKl43myA$>
>> The cultural myths and realities of teaching and learning / Pedagogical
>> leadership / Pedagogy and assessment / Home - Educational Leaders
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz/Pedagogy-and-assessment/Pedagogical-leadership/The-cultural-myths-and-realities-of-teaching-and-learning__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVKl43myA$>
>> The cultural myths and realities of teaching and learning. by Graham
>> Nuthall. Download this complete document (PDF 149 kB) Help with PDF files
>> Overview. Graham Nuthall was Emeritus Professor of Education at the
>> University of Canterbury in Christchurch.
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz__;!!Mih3wA!Vz2RLDwuF5c-VkN7oR3CdJ-V3QqgDd5W1EaMzuybMqfsSJSpn5yA3c3-UR1gD2Z8FvvZVg$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.educationalleaders.govt.nz__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kXD3p1_-w$>
>>
>> Nuthall had participated in some of xmca conversation.
>>
>> also, Gerard Edelman's work, which was the focus of an xmca conversation
>> some time ago, points out that initials perceptions are initially sorted
>> into one of two values - in layman's terms, like or dislike.  which is of
>> course an emotional response.
>>
>> *Bright Air, Brilliant Fire: On the Matter of the Mind* (Basic Books,
>> 1992, Reprint edition 1993). ISBN
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kVQcrjGHA$>
>>  0-465-00764-3
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-465-00764-3__;!!Mih3wA!U4CMQps4MNhV4Y4qAOMoas5Dla-j0v-MYik_D63mVqMQoDdyz5QY0jZqpGwd6kWgq0yeVA$>
>>
>> in short, there are many ways of exploring student emotions i'd consider
>> to be more reliable that trustworthy than tests.
>>
>> phillip
>>
>

-- 

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will twist itself into the same tortured forms. Sow the same seed of
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same fruit, according to its kind.  C.Dickens.
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