[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie?

Sat Apr 25 17:37:44 PDT 2020

New Zealand's aim is *eradication*, leading to a full return 
to normal life behind a quarantine wall.

Australia's aim is *suppression*. As it happens, we are 
likely to get to zero cases as fast as NZ, but the 
difference is that Australia is planning towards equipping 
ourselves with the Tracking App on everyone's phones, lots 
of test kits and thousands of people trained and prepared to 
test. It is assumed that whatever we do, there will be 
outbreaks, and you could get those waves of infection, and 
the capacity to return to normal life depends on the ability 
to contact-trace, test and quarantine with speed and 
accuracy. The infection rate is currently so low (about 12 a 
day in pop. of 25m) that we could go back to normal now, if 
the testing infrastructure was in place. Actually, the 
population is largely resisting the return to work at the 
moment. The teachers don't want all the kids back at school.

It is possible that Oz and NZ will share a quarantine zone 
until the vaccine is in use.

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAgWVo7XtA$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAj9gaoh8Q$ >
On 26/04/2020 2:14 am, Martin Packer wrote:
> David,
>
> There is talk about the possible eradication of the virus 
> in Australia and New Zealand, from what I have read. 
> Eradication is difficult when no one has resistance, but 
> not impossible. Other virus infections have been 
> eradicated, as far as one can tell, such as smallpox.
>
> In Wuhan, where the infections started, which is a city of 
> around 11 million people, less that 70,000 cases were 
> reported. Even if that is vastly underreported by a factor 
> of 10 it is less than 10%.  And studies in California 
> suggest that only 1 in 5 have been infected, of whom 60% 
> have not experienced any symptoms. Only around 5% need 
> hospitalization.
>
> Martin
>
>
>> On Apr 25, 2020, at 10:46 AM, David H Kirshner 
>> <dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Martin,
>>
>> The scenario you sketched out is what I’d thought 
>> would/could happen, but the epidemiologists don’t ever 
>> talk about eradicating the virus, they just talk about 
>> slowing the spread so as not to overwhelm health care 
>> facilities. Eventually, everyone who can get it will get 
>> it. So a generation of older and weaker people will be 
>> adversely affected, many dying. It’s only in the next 
>> generation when most people have gotten it young that it 
>> will fade into the background, like the common cold.
>>
>> David
>>
>> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu 
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> 
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu 
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf Of 
>> *Martin Packer
>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 25, 2020 7:42 AM
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity 
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie?
>>
>> Julian,
>>
>> If no efforts are made to contain a virus it will move 
>> through a population in a single wave, infecting many 
>> people and then disappearing as no more potential hosts 
>> are available.
>>
>> If efforts to contain it — lockdown — are adequate there 
>> will be a single much smaller wave, followed again by 
>> elimination as hosts are not available.
>>
>> If containment is not effective — if people don’t isolate 
>> sufficiently — there may be a second wave when the 
>> containment is reduced. Or the first wave may not be 
>> controlled.
>>
>> As you say, each country is responding differently. 
>> Australia seems close to eliminating the virus after a 
>> single wave. The US and UK are somewhere between starting 
>> a second wave and still being in a poorly controlled 
>> first wave. Colombia seems to be still moving up its 
>> first wave.
>>
>> The behavior of a virus can be modeled, but only on the 
>> basis of assumptions about how people are going to 
>> behave. Since we cannot predict this behavior, we cannot 
>> even predict how the virus will or will not spread, let 
>> alone the political, economic and social consequences.
>>
>> To say this is not to be pessimistic; pessimism would be 
>> predicting a dire outcome. Rather, it highlights that the 
>> outcome lies in all our hands.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Apr 25, 2020, at 1:43 AM, Julian Williams
>>     <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk
>>     <mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     Andy/Greg
>>
>>     Each nation state appears to be ‘playing’ the
>>     pandemic in different ways (eg China, Italy,
>>     Australia, NZ, Sweden, UK, USA,… check out attached
>>     report which comes
>>     fromhttps://pandemic.internationalsos.com/2019-ncov
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fpandemic.internationalsos.com*2F2019-ncov__*3B!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBuG_SQkBg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276903189&sdata=61pgy27QZzEaALkKVjxPTn0pp*2FLGn21Yd1KrodJviwk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpUWL5Hw3A$>   I
>>     get one of these reports every few days)  while
>>     sometimes looking to other countries to see how their
>>     numbers are growing/falling (and mostly making a damn
>>     poor job of it).
>>
>>     Before this all got going, the scientists already had
>>     a pretty good idea how a pandemic works, and even
>>     what needed to be done to prepare for
>>     it:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAil2mWVUQ$ 
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.theguardian.com*2Fworld*2F2020*2Fapr*2F24*2Frevealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic__*3B!!Mih3wA!WPEOjoRcy7-0XGXGM7QSrXXC27_A4xJId659fiG4khvEeZtv3X_8vk3uo8LvLBuWZeIjdw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276903189&sdata=94tZ8Ws2JeXxWr0KOQl5TSlVUXNaM8K5Td*2BQeE2nhC4*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpUVP_4Izw$>
>>
>>     And now we know a bit more than we did then.
>>
>>     There is a prediction/warning there about a number of
>>     pandemic waves…
>>
>>     In the second ‘wave’, we – the world
>>     subject-in-formation may have learnt more, maybe
>>     there will be fewer deaths?  Maybe we will rescue
>>     WHO, maybe not (I won’t predict). But maybe the
>>     science community will be paying serious attention,
>>     and especially to its duty to the ‘public good’. But
>>     there are some contradictory signs. In my own
>>     university we seem to be about to enter a new
>>     austerity, (implemented from the top by a failing
>>     leadership, led by a true academic, bio scientist no
>>     less!)
>>
>>     What is clear is that the ‘public’ and its social
>>     movements are key to forcing each government to act,
>>     and that in almost all cases our leaders and rulers
>>     have followed along reluctantly – even while the
>>     science and the pandemic plan was there.
>>
>>     In the third and subsequent waves? I agree it’s not
>>     predictable: the outcomes will depend entirely on all
>>     of ‘us’.
>>
>>     And in the next ‘big one’, the climate collapse?
>>     Maybe all this pandemic ‘play’ will have helped
>>     prepare us, we maybe will learn how to build the
>>     institutions, policies etc for the world’s ‘public
>>     good’ in time. I still have hope.
>>
>>     I use Vygotsky-Leontiev’s idea of ‘play’ as the
>>     leading activity of the pre-schooler, as I find it
>>     complements the notion of world perezhivanie – yes,
>>     we are experiencing trauma and that drives activity
>>     to overcome, etc, but also in this play we are
>>     acting, reflecting, and always – above all -
>>     imagining and re-imagining (modelling etc) our world
>>     future.
>>
>>     Julian
>>
>>     *From:*<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>     of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
>>     <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>>     *Reply-To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>     <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>     *Date:*Saturday, 25 April 2020 at 02:08
>>     *To:*"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>     <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>     *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: Covid as World Perezhivanie?
>>
>>     Greg, the word is polysemic, as Mike said, but I
>>     agree with Michael that/perezhivaniya/are essentially
>>     collective experiences. As I say in the article, that
>>     COVID will be experienced differently in different
>>     countries, by different classes and social groups is
>>     an important part of this process. It does not
>>     detract it from its being a single experience.
>>
>>     Huw, a "world subject" is emergent at this moment. It
>>     is implicit or "in-itself" but I look forward to the
>>     appearance of such a world subject, though who know
>>     how long and through what traumas we will pass before
>>     it is an actuality. Like WW2, the COVID pandemic part
>>     of its birth process.
>>
>>       * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAg0thQung$ ,
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fseminars*2Fperezhivanie.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0iFFi2kTw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276913183&sdata=UWpYeP4xzS0afWz5kuM1nprhHlVnPuBVcv9yE*2BF7ytU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpWv_2tkhw$>Notes,
>>         links, excerpts, 2009
>>       * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Blunden_article*response.pdf__;Kw!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAjGcGHusQ$ 
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Fpdfs*2FBlunden_article*response.pdf__*3BKw!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0jGnjh6xA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276913183&sdata=QSMcC9MD*2BaCCgQnnoNCxe4xqFKvFEu81i4GwhAfZwEs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpVWJq6pCA$>,
>>         MCA article 2016
>>       * https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Coronavirus-pandemic.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAjrETlooQ$ 
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Fpdfs*2FCoronavirus-pandemic.pdf__*3B!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0iFrpl65A*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276923178&sdata=DTOj2Akqw9YK3oaKKoS3rDy5REPwdCsMx0SMyG5z83Y*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpWUL5l0GA$>
>>
>>     Andy
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     *Andy Blunden*
>>     Hegel for Social Movements
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0gisOQgKQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276923178&sdata=8QFkTyVJ7t6xKEcWSMIhFD5pcgleiwGHQ1sGG*2FsMxMA*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpVQ2V1c_g$>
>>     Home Page
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!Mih3wA!S8ALk6GlG2xHhKD5PZffsZwZSDgRm3dCjkxcBsYpsG0QakxKLngh6lBP1DDCY0g96FIVQA*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276933170&sdata=7NAgGsxqfAWVYS5*2F*2B9xWOiNvok5vuURW6n85vTJmSaQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpUqCFA6ag$>
>>
>>     On 25/04/2020 4:01 am, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>
>>         I'm wondering about Andy's suggestion that
>>         covid-19 is a (or maybe "is creating a"?) world
>>         perezhivanie. That seems a really rich suggestion
>>         but I'm not sure how many of us on the list
>>         really understand what he means by this.
>>
>>         Andy tends to just tell me to go read more and so
>>         I'm wondering if someone else might be willing to
>>         take a stab at explaining what he might mean.
>>
>>         Also, as a critical intervention, I am wondering
>>         whether covid-19 is the "same" for everyone. We
>>         have folks in the U.S. who think it is basically
>>         just a typical flu that has been turned into a
>>         political tool to attack the current president.
>>         Or does that not matter for perezhivanie?
>>
>>         (and just to be clear, my question is not whether
>>         or not this is true or right or beautiful to
>>         think this way; my question is whether or not
>>         this is how people are actually experiencing the
>>         world since I assume that this is what
>>         perezhivanie is supposed to be "getting at". Or
>>         am I misunderstanding perezhivanie?)
>>
>>         So is there really a shared perezhivanie here?
>>
>>         (Is The Problem of Age the place to look for
>>         answers?)
>>
>>         But if no one wants to take this up (perhaps too
>>         much ink has been spilt over perezhivanie?),
>>         that's fine too.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         greg
>>
>>         --
>>
>>         Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>
>>         Assistant Professor
>>
>>         Department of Anthropology
>>
>>         880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>
>>         Brigham Young University
>>
>>         Provo, UT 84602
>>
>>         WEBSITE:
>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAgHrudO8Q$ 
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fanthropology.byu.edu*2Fgreg-thompson__*3B!!Mih3wA!WN8l_yYMTbBnmCBcPiLWU5hQYwPZIdGtHFRjEQb6reqIHexrpd3i0uUYMaQe4C4*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276933170&sdata=EobYO4PePrVBoi31Ny*2FGILPiRLtaFedwDlj9uuJvzMI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpXY6dRGiw$>
>>
>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!XP82Sp95CB9oMNBLZHUfIx2o1vh2230Ejyvp5QYESvRIHhKnxQdoi3JOZIGaMAhIPgVfYw$ 
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fbyu.academia.edu*2FGregoryThompson__*3B!!Mih3wA!WN8l_yYMTbBnmCBcPiLWU5hQYwPZIdGtHFRjEQb6reqIHexrpd3i0uUYNZy2lRg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C13d87711a64c4d5a186408d7e9164a3c*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637234154276943163&sdata=mkbS8fib0Ix7c1x8mKscH0zNyJRb39Pl89dFqmkpP*2FY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!VMC7Q42-ZCLzlrlcxDalTU1dfGjI2uL5la5B1b-uJBs0lJmYIEwYo2Mjvs8OHpUlTVlJGQ$>
>>
>>     <Executive Summary 15 APRIL 2020 FINAL[1].docx>
>>
>
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