[Xmca-l] Re: Saussure vs Peirce

[Greg Thompson]

Yes, that's the one David. Thanks for pulling it up so quickly!
(and I'm in general agreement with you about Volosinov for a number of
reasons but I'm no expert and so I indicate that by allowing for the
possibility that I might be wrong (Bakhtin?)).
-greg

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:04 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Greg--It's Volosinov and not Bakhtin. "Dialogue in Art and Dialogue in
> Life". And the dialogue is:
>
> (Couple on a sofa. It is May. They are yearning for spring, and looking
> out the window. Because this is Russia, it starts to snow....)
>
> A: (looks dismayed)
> B: (sounds resigned)  Well...!
>
> And here the integrationists (who, like Halliday, take the work of BOTH
> Firths--Raymond Firth and J.R. Firth very seriously) have a point. The
> dialogue requires context to be comprehensible, and so we filter out
> language and treat it as a n immutable code with some peril...
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article;
>
>  David Kellogg (2019) THE STORYTELLER’S TALE: VYGOTSKY’S
> ‘VRASHCHIVANIYA’, THE ZONE OF PROXIMAL DEVELOPMENT AND ‘INGROWING’ IN THE
> WEEKEND STORIES OF KOREAN CHILDREN, British Journal of Educational
> Studies, DOI: 10.1080/00071005.2019.1569200
> <https://doi.org/10.1080/00071005.2019.1569200>
>
>
> Some e-prints available at:
>
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/GSS2cTAVAz2jaRdPIkvj/full?target=10.1080/00071005.2019.1569200
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 1:56 PM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Andy,
>>
>> Well...
>>
>> -greg
>> p.s., Volosinov (Bakhtin?) has a lovely essay where he treats the word
>> "Well..." as an utterance (or that is one translation of it - the other is
>> "So").  So...
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 6:15 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, so we're almost in furious agreement on 'utterance'. But this
>>> contradicted by Akhutina saying 'the word is a  compressed version of the
>>> utterance'. It is not. A 'word' is something else - it is a sign for a
>>> concept.
>>>
>>> The limit case of an utterance, such as when a person responds:
>>> "Rubbish!" is also stretching the meaning of 'word' to its limits, so I
>>> don't think this is what is meant. It is just wrong.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 18/03/2019 3:45 am, Helena Worthen wrote:
>>>
>>> I find it useful to think of an utterance as bounded on two ends: on
>>> one, by the utterance to which it responds, on the other, by the utterance
>>> that responds to it. Thus you can discern utterances within utterances.
>>> Minimally, a two -part exchange, as Martin says; maximally, a whole stream
>>> of briefer utterances bounded by their prompt and response.
>>>
>>> Helena Worthen
>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> According to conversation analysts, the minimal unit in conversation is
>>> the adjacency pair: a two-part exchange in which the second utterance is
>>> functionally dependent on the first.  Question-answer; greeting-greeting;
>>> request-reply, and so on. An utterance, then, is both a turn and a move
>>> within a conversation.  An utterance is *not* “complete in itself” - it is
>>> a component in a larger organization: at least a pair, and usually a much
>>> longer sequence.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 16, 2019, at 3:11 AM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would  have appreciated a definition of some kind of what the writer
>>> actually means by "utterance." In absence of that "the word, as a
>>> compressed version of the utterance" is nonsense, or at least a step
>>> backwards because it obliterates a concept. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind
>>> saying that the two are together the micro- and macro-units of dialogue (or
>>> something having that meaning). The same as Leontyev has two units of
>>> activity: action and activity, and Marx has two units of political economy:
>>> commodity and capital. To theorise a complex process you always need two
>>> units.
>>>
>>> The rest of what you have cited reminds me of what Constantin
>>> Stanislavskii said about the units of an actor's performance:
>>>
>>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/stanislavskii.pdf
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 16/03/2019 5:42 pm, Arturo Escandon wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for that conceptual jewel, mate.
>>>
>>> Let me bring here Akhutina to further show their complementariness:
>>>
>>> The minimal holistic unit of conversation is the utterance. An
>>> utterance, unlike a sentence, is complete in itself. The utterance always
>>> carries within it the marks and features of who is speaking to whom, for
>>> what reason and in what situation; it is polyphonic. An utterance develops
>>> from a motivation, “a volitional objective” and progresses through inner
>>> speech to external speech. The prime mover of the semantic progression
>>> (from the inner word that is comprehensible to me alone to the external
>>> speech that he, the listener, will understand) is the comparison of my
>>> subjective, evanescent sense, which I attribute to the given word, and its
>>> objective (constant for both me and my listener) meaning.Thus, the major
>>> building material for speech production is the living two-voice word. But
>>> polyphony is a feature of the utterance as expressed in the word; the word
>>> carrying personal sense is an abbreviation of the utterance. Thus, the
>>> utterance and the word, as a compressed version of the utterance, are the
>>> units of speech acts, communication, and consciousness.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Arturo
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> *"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or Dr. Lowie or discuss
>>> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become at once aware that my
>>> partner does not understand anything in the matter, and I end usually with
>>> the feeling that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>
>

-- 
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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