[Xmca-l] Re: History of Explicit and Implicit Knowledge
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Fri Jun 14 17:59:43 PDT 2019
Vygotsky showed in his work on child development (_Problem
of Age_, for example) that the will is not born free all at
once, and is in fact never free absolutely. Hegel gives us
an extended discourse on free will in _The Philosophy of
Right_, beginning with the transformation of the 'natural
will' into the 'free will' with the creatures who use
culture to control their own activity. But is takes social
transformation to take the will beyond a Spinozan/Stoic
resignation.
Nature-given drives and culture-given norms do not cancel
freedom of will absolutely, but I think it makes no sense to
talk about "agency" or freedom of the will other than
actions passing through consciousness, with or without
conscious awareness. But of course, if you are an
Althusserian or Foucauldian, "agency" is taken in the sense
of being the unwitting agent transmitting a disease, under
which meaning, the earthworm has as much agency as Napoleon.
Andy
https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Article_on_Teleology.pdf
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 15/06/2019 4:21 am, mike cole wrote:
> So agency is wiggle room (discoordination?) /plus .../
> Google translate tell me that the phrase "people have
> agency" is translated as люди имеют свободу действий
> (people possess freedom of action).
>
> which brings us to freedom and action as Vygotskian concepts.
>
> And if will is the ability to control oneself from the
> outside, but the outside is that very same social
> world that enabled you to use what they provided to
> control yourself, what agency do "you"
> have? Wiggle room and.....
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:56 AM Greg Mcverry
> <jgregmcverry@gmail.com <mailto:jgregmcverry@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Can the earthworms consider the consequences of
> wiggiling this way or that and predicting the
> consequences of these choices or do they follow an
> almost programmatic biological following. If so is
> this agency and still learning in emodoed ways?
>
> I do keep a worm box those worms are more than cared
> for but not free? Are they missing agency?
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 1:05 PM mike cole
> <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
> The same distinction can be found usefully in the
> work of Giyoo Hatano which you might find
> useful,Greg. A distinction is found in Wright's
> book on Envisioning Real Utopias between ideology
> and culture.
>
> Odd query: Earth worms have an enormous effect on
> their environments and hence ours.
> Earth worms could not do this if they did not have
> "wiggle room." Would you attribute the
> tunnels and soil transformation of earth worms to
> them "having" agency?
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:20 AM Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I think you'd need to qualify that statement,
> Peter, for it to be correct.
>
> The use of the phrase "involuntary" in P. I.
> Zinchenko's work pertains to "without
> volition" rather than "against one's volition".
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:27, Peter Feigenbaum
> [Staff] <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
> <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> I'm not sure about implicit *knowledge*,
> but the earliest studies on implicit
> *learning* were conducted by Arthur Reber
> in the 1960s. I had the good fortune of
> being a graduate student at CUNY Graduate
> Center in Developmental Psychology in the
> 1980s when Arthur was there as a visiting
> scholar. He was studying implicit learning
> of *grammar* by adults and children. What
> struck me about the phenomenon (then and
> now) is that subjects in experiments are
> unaware that they are engaged in implicit
> learning - and when asked to think about
> the task they are performing while they
> are learning to infer patterns implicitly,
> their performance deteriorates
> significantly. It would seem that implicit
> and explicit learning are activities that
> conflict with each other.
>
> This info may not be at all relevant to
> your question, but I thought I should
> mention it.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 7:26 AM Greg
> Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com
> <mailto:jgregmcverry@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thank you all, excatly what I am
> looking for. This idea of applying
> implicit and explicit knowledge to D,
> P, and C makes total sense.
>
> I will be rejecting much as well but
> it is the langauge of my audience so I
> wanted to grasp the origin.
>
> I am also trying to track how my ideas
> get captured and transformed here:
> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/06/14/using-my-commonplace-book-to-write-an-article
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_06_14_using-2Dmy-2Dcommonplace-2Dbook-2Dto-2Dwrite-2Dan-2Darticle&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=5NkpeiWUmHvx6EYKyYLIFUpz1dCqfsmfYPqFhJ7OUqQ&e=>
>
> With your permission I would like to
> quote your emails in the same post.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:40 AM David
> Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com
> <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Keith Johnson, one of the
> professors on my MA at University
> of Essex,used the distinction
> between implicit and explicit on
> the one hand, and the J.R.
> Anderson model of DECPRO, PRODEC
> on the other. He didn't say
> anything about conditional
> knowledge, but from Anderson I
> gather it's something to do with
> the passive reception/active
> production distinction (that we
> Halllidayans reject).
>
> I never heard him use both of them
> together, in a matrix, so that
> there was implicit and explicit
> declarative knowledge, implicit
> and explicit procedural knowledge,
> and implicit and explicit
> conditional knowledge. But Keith
> was very GRAMMATICAL. It seems to
> me that if you apply it to
> PHONOLOGY, there isn't any reason
> we can't talk about implicit and
> explicit declarative knowledge
> (knowing THAT a sound is a /d/ and
> not a /t/ implicitly and being
> able to express that idea in
> phonological terms) and it is also
> possible to talk about implicit
> and explicit procedural knowledge
> (knowing HOW to distinguish
> them without thinking about it,
> and knowing HOW they are
> distinguished by the movements of
> the articulators). I don't see any
> reason in principle why you
> couldn't do the same thing with
> conditional knowledge either,
> although I'm not really sure that
> all these distinctions are
> relevant to teaching.
>
> All of this, and a lot more, in
> his 19i96 book Skill Learning and
> Language Teaching (Blackwell).
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article:
> Han Hee Jeung & David Kellogg
> (2019): A story without SELF:
> Vygotsky’s
> pedology, Bruner’s constructivism
> and Halliday’s construalism in
> understanding narratives by
> Korean children, Language and
> Education, DOI:
> 10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
> To link to this article:
> https://doi.org/10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__doi.org_10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=Z_PGe9VQYPqVUGV8dxx-MsXNU0iYmNIvu6Y-vSRQZrg&e=>
>
> Some e-prints available at:
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK/full?target=10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tandfonline.com_eprint_KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK_full-3Ftarget-3D10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=dlTSEQSXtCZwen38XmBQsCFMst6NxbENTUsHRRNKUFs&e=>
>
> All of this is in his 1996 book
> Skill Learning and Language
> Teaching (Blackwell).
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:50 AM
> Greg Mcverry
> <jgregmcverry@gmail.com
> <mailto:jgregmcverry@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am carrying on my quest to
> rethink cognitive
> apprenticeships into agentive
> apprenticeships for my work
> around innovation systems:
> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/07/my-fork-of-synea-into-a-saint
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_03_07_my-2Dfork-2Dof-2Dsynea-2Dinto-2Da-2Dsaint&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=JxkaETsmrQCQNCIUZxTIcy_dtBqjaE6CMj2s7zvH80E&e=>
>
> Agentive apprenticeships defer
> more in centering the agency
> and choice in the learner in a
> network of shared interest
> where the space and tools
> teach much as any person.
>
> You may recall I originally
> asked for ideas around
> knowledge brokering as it did
> not sit well with me. I
> decided to go with Knowledge
> Knitting as my metaphor. It is
> used frequently in the OER
> Community and amongst under
> represented scholars and if I
> can get the pictures out of my
> head and into words it will
> make sense.
>
> But I am trying to chase down
> when the distinction between
> explicit and implicit
> knowledge began. It weaves
> through all apprenticeship
> research up through and
> including Gee's work on
> Affinity Spaces.
>
> I am more trained in the
> cognitive narrative that
> dominates reading instruction
> today of declarative,
> procedural, and conditional
> knowledge.
>
> Two questions:
> -When did the distinction
> between implicit and explicit
> knowledge begin?
> -Are you aware of works that
> describe knowing in both
> implicit and explicit and in
> declarative, procedural, and
> conditional knowledge.
>
> Greg
>
> --
> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
> Assistant Professor
> Southern Connecticut State
> University
> twitter: jgmac1106
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
> Assistant Professor
> Southern Connecticut State University
> twitter: jgmac1106
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> Director,
> Office of Institutional Research
> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
> Fordham University
> Thebaud Hall-202
> Bronx, NY 10458
>
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
> Fax: (718) 817-3817
> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
> <mailto:pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
>
>
>
> --
> The struggle of (hu)mans against power is the
> struggle of memory against forgetting.
> ― Milan Kundera (slightly edited)
>
>
>
> --
> The struggle of (hu)mans against power is the struggle of
> memory against forgetting.
> ― Milan Kundera (slightly edited)
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