[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Sat Nov 3 18:42:35 PDT 2018
Er: "relation between Marx and Hegel"
(sorry, not fully awake.)
andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 4/11/2018 12:22 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> Er: "owed" not "obeyed"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 4/11/2018 12:08 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>> Haydi, that Marx obeyed a great philosophical debt to
>> Hegel and based the structure of his /Capital/ on Hegel's
>> Logic is very well documented nowadays and I say what I
>> say with very thorough knowledge of both writers. I think
>> the issue may be best dealt with by helping to clarify
>> the meaning of "idealism". See my article: "In what sense
>> was Hegel an Idealist?" - which deals with the relation
>> between Marx and Engels succinctly.
>>
>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Hegel-idealist.pdf
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 4/11/2018 2:53 AM, Haydi Zulfei wrote:
>>> Hi Andy,
>>> I think Marx and Engels both ridicule Hegel's reduction
>>> of "Ontology" to "Logic". And theirs was not a matter of
>>> "formulation" , rather , a matter of a Philosopher's
>>> state of thinking while he has his head stuck to soil
>>> shying the air away of him under strict pressure :-)
>>> needing to be upheld erect again so that the head
>>> retrieves his capability of ordinary thinking.
>>>
>>> Hegel's "Ontology" (/Die Lehre vom Sein/) is usually
>>> translated into English as "The Doctrine of Being." yes
>>> , but of "Being of the Idea" self-generating (suis
>>> generis) counterpart of Nothing co-existing with it on
>>> the very instant leaving no space for any creation other
>>> than his governing the whole universe divinely looking
>>> down on the Material World as having been alienated from
>>> him relapsed into his warm bosom if desired to find
>>> Originality provided averts materiality.
>>>
>>> If we take "ontology" as the Being of any phenomena and
>>> thoughts and and ideas and ideals and even fantasies and
>>> imaginary creatures and speculations , won't you think
>>> we get involved in vicious circles , any sublations and
>>> derivations as new existences , any leaps and bounds as
>>> newer and newer qualities as new existences? Then what
>>> becomes of Dualism and Pluralism and the one single
>>> matter in motion?
>>>
>>> Thought has its origin in reality but is not one with it.
>>>
>>> Can we generalize "what exists in mind" as what ARE?
>>> Take onto mind Condition and the Conditioned. Greg's
>>> first statement sounds well!
>>>
>>> Marx says : Science is the Product of Practical Activity
>>> 1844 Manuscripts.
>>>
>>> Please see the attached.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Haydi
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 3, 2018, 6:49:37 AM GMT+3:30, Andy
>>> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be more true to say that in Marx's day
>>> "Ontology" was only used in the non-countable form; the
>>> countable (i.e. plural) form of "Ontology" is a product
>>> I think of the second half of the 20th Century. Martin?
>>> can you pinpoint it? I think that Marx agreed with
>>> Hegel's reduction of Ontology to Logic, though he also
>>> had differences over Hegel's formulation of it - the
>>> famous "Method of Political Economy" passage which CHAT
>>> people like to quote, explains it. Hegel's "Ontology"
>>> (/Die Lehre vom Sein/) is usually translated into
>>> English as "The Doctrine of Being." Hegel's reduction of
>>> Ontology to Logic is explained in the Preface to the
>>> /Phenomenology/, already mentioned, and implemented in
>>> the first book of the Logic.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 3/11/2018 3:28 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>>> I sent the following message off-line to Beth. I'll
>>>> send it here without the attachments just in case
>>>> someone is watching...
>>>> They should be publicly accessible.
>>>> (and funny that Wagner also happened across the same
>>>> book that I did, behold the power of Google!).
>>>>
>>>> Wagner, simple story with ontology, in anthropology at
>>>> least, is that it has been pluralized so that people
>>>> now speak of different ontologies. Science is just one
>>>> of them. In many ways this is anti-Marxist since Marx
>>>> imagined just one ontology (and science was going to
>>>> get to the bottom of it!), but I'd like to think that
>>>> this move isn't entirely irreconcilable with all
>>>> readings of Marx.
>>>>
>>>> -greg
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: *Greg Thompson* <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: What is science?: Where to
>>>> start doctoral students?
>>>> To: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Beth,
>>>>
>>>> This may be more than you bargained for but Latour has
>>>> been doing some interesting thinking/writing on this
>>>> issue, reported secondarily here:
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/magazine/bruno-latour-post-truth-philosopher-science.html
>>>>
>>>> I have also attached his essay Why has critique run out
>>>> of steam? (as well as the intro from Pandora's Hope "Do
>>>> you believe in reality?") which was an early
>>>> articulation of this particular (re)articulation of his
>>>> position.
>>>>
>>>> Goodwin's Professional Vision also comes to mind (also
>>>> attached).
>>>>
>>>> And for kicks, I just googled your question and found
>>>> this book that really seems to be a very smart approach:
>>>> https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s13tBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=what+is+science%3F&ots=hG7y6xF0gy&sig=DNMs__6vnoZUvXbOelWC8DcL4ns#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20science%3F&f=false
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of "rigorous storytelling" as one answer
>>>> to your question. I googled and found that I've already
>>>> been outdone - Susan Porter has "triple-rigorous
>>>> storytelling" based on her work with food justice.
>>>> Might be of interest depending on your students' projects:
>>>> https://www.foodsystemsjournal.org/index.php/fsj/article/view/fd-triple
>>>>
>>>> Best of luck!
>>>> -greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:33 AM Beth Ferholt
>>>> <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Great. Kuhn and Thinking and Speech are two of the
>>>> few things on my list already and I’ll start
>>>> reading the other two, sensible or no, now! Thanks
>>>> so much, Beth
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 1, 2018, Andy Blunden
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Beth, much as a part of me would like to
>>>> recommend the Preface to Hegel's Phenomenology,
>>>> being sensible I would still recommend:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The first chapter of Thinking and Speech
>>>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/ch01.htm
>>>> 2. Marx's Method of Political Economy
>>>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm#loc3
>>>> 3. And they should read Thomas Kuhn's
>>>> Structure of Scientific Revolutions
>>>> https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm
>>>>
>>>> Who knows? You might be fostering an original
>>>> thinker?
>>>> Andy
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>> On 1/11/2018 11:43 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:09 AM Beth Ferholt
>>>>> <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to take the role
>>>>> of advisor on doctoral
>>>>> dissertations and wonder how
>>>>> best to begin to discuss "what
>>>>> is science?" with students who
>>>>> will need to respond concisely
>>>>> when asked about the rigor and
>>>>> reliability of their formative
>>>>> intervention, narrative and/or
>>>>> autobiographical studies.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for an overview or
>>>>> paper that does more than
>>>>> argue the value of one
>>>>> approach -- something to start
>>>>> them off thinking about the
>>>>> issues, not immerse them in
>>>>> one perspective quite yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> If not an overview then maybe
>>>>> a paper that contextualizes
>>>>> "rigor" and "reliability".
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously this is an endless
>>>>> topic but do some people
>>>>> reading XMCA have some
>>>>> favorite papers that they give
>>>>> to their advisees or use when
>>>>> they teach a methods class?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Beth
>>>>> --
>>>>> Beth Ferholt
>>>>> Associate
>>>>> Professor, Department of Early
>>>>> Childhood and Art Education;
>>>>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY
>>>>> Graduate Center
>>>>> Brooklyn College, City
>>>>> University of New York
>>>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210
>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>-2889
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Beth Ferholt
>>>> Associate Professor, Department of Early Childhood
>>>> and Art Education;
>>>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center
>>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>>>
>>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>
>>
>
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