[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Sat Nov 3 18:22:23 PDT 2018
Er: "owed" not "obeyed"
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 4/11/2018 12:08 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> Haydi, that Marx obeyed a great philosophical debt to
> Hegel and based the structure of his /Capital/ on Hegel's
> Logic is very well documented nowadays and I say what I
> say with very thorough knowledge of both writers. I think
> the issue may be best dealt with by helping to clarify the
> meaning of "idealism". See my article: "In what sense was
> Hegel an Idealist?" - which deals with the relation
> between Marx and Engels succinctly.
>
> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Hegel-idealist.pdf
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 4/11/2018 2:53 AM, Haydi Zulfei wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>> I think Marx and Engels both ridicule Hegel's reduction
>> of "Ontology" to "Logic". And theirs was not a matter of
>> "formulation" , rather , a matter of a Philosopher's
>> state of thinking while he has his head stuck to soil
>> shying the air away of him under strict pressure :-)
>> needing to be upheld erect again so that the head
>> retrieves his capability of ordinary thinking.
>>
>> Hegel's "Ontology" (/Die Lehre vom Sein/) is usually
>> translated into English as "The Doctrine of Being." yes ,
>> but of "Being of the Idea" self-generating (suis generis)
>> counterpart of Nothing co-existing with it on the very
>> instant leaving no space for any creation other than his
>> governing the whole universe divinely looking down on the
>> Material World as having been alienated from him relapsed
>> into his warm bosom if desired to find Originality
>> provided averts materiality.
>>
>> If we take "ontology" as the Being of any phenomena and
>> thoughts and and ideas and ideals and even fantasies and
>> imaginary creatures and speculations , won't you think we
>> get involved in vicious circles , any sublations and
>> derivations as new existences , any leaps and bounds as
>> newer and newer qualities as new existences? Then what
>> becomes of Dualism and Pluralism and the one single
>> matter in motion?
>>
>> Thought has its origin in reality but is not one with it.
>>
>> Can we generalize "what exists in mind" as what ARE? Take
>> onto mind Condition and the Conditioned. Greg's first
>> statement sounds well!
>>
>> Marx says : Science is the Product of Practical Activity
>> 1844 Manuscripts.
>>
>> Please see the attached.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Haydi
>>
>> On Saturday, November 3, 2018, 6:49:37 AM GMT+3:30, Andy
>> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think it would be more true to say that in Marx's day
>> "Ontology" was only used in the non-countable form; the
>> countable (i.e. plural) form of "Ontology" is a product I
>> think of the second half of the 20th Century. Martin? can
>> you pinpoint it? I think that Marx agreed with Hegel's
>> reduction of Ontology to Logic, though he also had
>> differences over Hegel's formulation of it - the famous
>> "Method of Political Economy" passage which CHAT people
>> like to quote, explains it. Hegel's "Ontology" (/Die
>> Lehre vom Sein/) is usually translated into English as
>> "The Doctrine of Being." Hegel's reduction of Ontology to
>> Logic is explained in the Preface to the /Phenomenology/,
>> already mentioned, and implemented in the first book of
>> the Logic.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 3/11/2018 3:28 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>> I sent the following message off-line to Beth. I'll send
>>> it here without the attachments just in case someone is
>>> watching...
>>> They should be publicly accessible.
>>> (and funny that Wagner also happened across the same
>>> book that I did, behold the power of Google!).
>>>
>>> Wagner, simple story with ontology, in anthropology at
>>> least, is that it has been pluralized so that people now
>>> speak of different ontologies. Science is just one of
>>> them. In many ways this is anti-Marxist since Marx
>>> imagined just one ontology (and science was going to get
>>> to the bottom of it!), but I'd like to think that this
>>> move isn't entirely irreconcilable with all readings of
>>> Marx.
>>>
>>> -greg
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: *Greg Thompson* <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: What is science?: Where to
>>> start doctoral students?
>>> To: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>> Beth,
>>>
>>> This may be more than you bargained for but Latour has
>>> been doing some interesting thinking/writing on this
>>> issue, reported secondarily here:
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/magazine/bruno-latour-post-truth-philosopher-science.html
>>>
>>> I have also attached his essay Why has critique run out
>>> of steam? (as well as the intro from Pandora's Hope "Do
>>> you believe in reality?") which was an early
>>> articulation of this particular (re)articulation of his
>>> position.
>>>
>>> Goodwin's Professional Vision also comes to mind (also
>>> attached).
>>>
>>> And for kicks, I just googled your question and found
>>> this book that really seems to be a very smart approach:
>>> https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s13tBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=what+is+science%3F&ots=hG7y6xF0gy&sig=DNMs__6vnoZUvXbOelWC8DcL4ns#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20science%3F&f=false
>>>
>>> I was thinking of "rigorous storytelling" as one answer
>>> to your question. I googled and found that I've already
>>> been outdone - Susan Porter has "triple-rigorous
>>> storytelling" based on her work with food justice. Might
>>> be of interest depending on your students' projects:
>>> https://www.foodsystemsjournal.org/index.php/fsj/article/view/fd-triple
>>>
>>> Best of luck!
>>> -greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:33 AM Beth Ferholt
>>> <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Great. Kuhn and Thinking and Speech are two of the
>>> few things on my list already and I’ll start reading
>>> the other two, sensible or no, now! Thanks so much, Beth
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 1, 2018, Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Beth, much as a part of me would like to
>>> recommend the Preface to Hegel's Phenomenology,
>>> being sensible I would still recommend:
>>>
>>> 1. The first chapter of Thinking and Speech
>>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/ch01.htm
>>> 2. Marx's Method of Political Economy
>>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm#loc3
>>> 3. And they should read Thomas Kuhn's Structure
>>> of Scientific Revolutions
>>> https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm
>>>
>>> Who knows? You might be fostering an original
>>> thinker?
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 1/11/2018 11:43 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:09 AM Beth Ferholt
>>>> <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting to take the role
>>>> of advisor on doctoral
>>>> dissertations and wonder how
>>>> best to begin to discuss "what
>>>> is science?" with students who
>>>> will need to respond concisely
>>>> when asked about the rigor and
>>>> reliability of their formative
>>>> intervention, narrative and/or
>>>> autobiographical studies.
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for an overview or
>>>> paper that does more than argue
>>>> the value of one approach --
>>>> something to start them off
>>>> thinking about the issues, not
>>>> immerse them in one perspective
>>>> quite yet.
>>>>
>>>> If not an overview then maybe a
>>>> paper that contextualizes
>>>> "rigor" and "reliability".
>>>>
>>>> Obviously this is an endless
>>>> topic but do some people
>>>> reading XMCA have some favorite
>>>> papers that they give to their
>>>> advisees or use when they teach
>>>> a methods class?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> Beth
>>>> --
>>>> Beth Ferholt
>>>> Associate Professor, Department
>>>> of Early Childhood and Art
>>>> Education;
>>>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY
>>>> Graduate Center
>>>> Brooklyn College, City
>>>> University of New York
>>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210
>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>-2889
>>>>
>>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Beth Ferholt
>>> Associate Professor, Department of Early Childhood
>>> and Art Education;
>>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center
>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>>
>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>
>
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