[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?

Sat Nov 3 08:53:00 PDT 2018

 Hi Andy,I think Marx and Engels both ridicule Hegel's reduction of "Ontology" to "Logic". And theirs was not a matter of "formulation" , rather , a matter of a Philosopher's state of thinking while he has his head stuck to soil shying the air away of him under strict pressure :-) needing to be upheld erect again so that the head retrieves his capability of ordinary thinking. 
Hegel's "Ontology" (Die Lehre vom Sein) is usually translated into English as "The Doctrine of Being." yes , but of "Being of the Idea" self-generating (suis generis) counterpart of Nothing co-existing with it on the very instant leaving no space for any creation other than his governing the whole universe divinely looking down on the Material World as having been alienated from him relapsed into his warm bosom if desired to find Originality provided averts materiality. 
If we take "ontology" as the Being of any phenomena and thoughts and and ideas and ideals and even fantasies and imaginary creatures and speculations , won't you think we get involved in vicious circles , any sublations and derivations as new existences , any leaps and bounds as newer and newer qualities as new existences? Then what becomes of Dualism and Pluralism and the one single matter in motion?
Thought has its origin in reality but is not one with it.
Can we generalize "what exists in mind" as what ARE? Take onto mind Condition and the Conditioned. Greg's first statement sounds well!
Marx says : Science is the Product of Practical Activity 1844 Manuscripts.
Please see the attached.
Best regards
Haydi  
    On Saturday, November 3, 2018, 6:49:37 AM GMT+3:30, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:  

I think it would be more true to say that in Marx's day "Ontology" was only used in the non-countable form; the countable (i.e. plural) form of "Ontology" is a product I think of the second half of the 20th Century. Martin? can you pinpoint it? I think that Marx agreed with Hegel's reduction of Ontology to Logic, though he also had differences over Hegel's formulation of it - the famous "Method of Political Economy" passage which CHAT people like to quote, explains it. Hegel's "Ontology" (Die Lehre vom Sein) is usually translated into English as "The Doctrine of Being." Hegel's reduction of Ontology to Logic is explained in the Preface to the Phenomenology, already mentioned, and implemented in the first book of the Logic.

Andy

   Andy Blunden
 http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm  On 3/11/2018 3:28 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:

  I sent the following message off-line to Beth. I'll send it here without the attachments just in case someone is watching...  They should be publicly accessible. (and funny that Wagner also happened across the same book that I did, behold the power of Google!). 
  Wagner, simple story with ontology, in anthropology at least, is that it has been pluralized so that people now speak of different ontologies. Science is just one of them. In many ways this is anti-Marxist since Marx imagined just one ontology (and science was going to get to the bottom of it!), but I'd like to think that this move isn't entirely irreconcilable with all readings of Marx. 
  -greg 
  ---------- Forwarded message ---------
 From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
 Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM
 Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?
 To: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> 
      Beth, 
  This may be more than you bargained for but Latour has been doing some interesting thinking/writing on this issue, reported secondarily here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/magazine/bruno-latour-post-truth-philosopher-science.html

  I have also attached his essay Why has critique run out of steam? (as well as the intro from Pandora's Hope "Do you believe in reality?") which was an early articulation of this particular (re)articulation of his position. 
  Goodwin's Professional Vision also comes to mind (also attached). 
  And for kicks, I just googled your question and found this book that really seems to be a very smart approach: https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s13tBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=what+is+science%3F&ots=hG7y6xF0gy&sig=DNMs__6vnoZUvXbOelWC8DcL4ns#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20science%3F&f=false

  I was thinking of "rigorous storytelling" as one answer to your question. I googled and found that I've already been outdone - Susan Porter has "triple-rigorous storytelling" based on her work with food justice. Might be of interest depending on your students' projects: https://www.foodsystemsjournal.org/index.php/fsj/article/view/fd-triple

  Best of luck! -greg 

  On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:33 AM Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:

Great. Kuhn and Thinking and Speech are two of the few things on my list already and I’ll start reading the other two, sensible or no, now! Thanks so much, Beth

 On Thursday, November 1, 2018, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:

Beth, much as a part of me would like to recommend the Preface to Hegel's Phenomenology, being sensible I would still recommend:

   - The first chapter of Thinking and Speech https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/ch01.htm
   - Marx's Method of Political Economy https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm#loc3
   - And they should read Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions    
 https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm   

 Who knows? You might be fostering an original thinker?
 Andy
   Andy Blunden
 http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm  On 1/11/2018 11:43 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:09 AM Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:

 I'm starting to take the role of advisor on doctoral dissertations and wonder how best to begin to discuss "what is science?" with students who will need to respond concisely when asked about  the rigor and reliability of their formative intervention, narrative and/or autobiographical studies. 
  I'm looking for an overview or paper that does more than argue the value of one approach -- something to start them off thinking about the issues, not immerse them in one perspective  quite yet. 
  If not an overview then maybe a paper that contextualizes "rigor" and "reliability". 

  Obviously this is an endless topic but do some people reading XMCA have some favorite papers that they give to their advisees or use when they teach a methods class? 
  Thanks! Beth
 -- 
      Beth Ferholt
 Associate Professor, Department of Early Childhood and Art Education; Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center Brooklyn College, City University of New York
 2900 Bedford Avenue
 Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
 Phone: (718) 951-5205
 Fax: (718) 951-4816

 -- 
     Beth Ferholt
 Associate Professor, Department of Early Childhood and Art Education; Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center Brooklyn College, City University of New York
 2900 Bedford Avenue
 Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
 Phone: (718) 951-5205
 Fax: (718) 951-4816

  -- 
     Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology
  880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu 
 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson      

  -- 
     Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Anthropology
  880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu 
 http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson      

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