[Xmca-l] Re: The Complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday

Tue Apr 17 18:13:42 PDT 2018

Whoa, that came out in iPhone-speak! How appropriate:-)
Mike

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:10 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> We’ll get right on it David . Thanks for the warning.
>
> As usual I fail to understanding of the words I used.
>
> Very useful for a first post in the discussion forum. Let’s see what
> mistakes Gordon is led into in his deployment of the term
>
> But first let’s get it up and running! This was supposed to be the easy
> part!
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:45 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a slightly different problem, Mike (and of course Brian Jones, the
>> guardian angel of xmca, hovering silently in the background). I figured
>> out
>> the problem just as Alfredo did and reached the place to register. I even
>> got an email asking me to confirm my submission. But it doesn't recognize
>> the administrative string that I send to confirm, either by email or at
>> the
>> site.
>>
>> Anyway, voila, here's what I wanted to say (because I am teaching it in
>> phonology class today, as review for the midterm). In phonetics,
>> "complementary distribution" means that the two sounds are NOT
>> interchangeable: for example, you always find the "dark", syllabic
>> consonant /l/ at the end of the word "little" and you never find it at the
>> beginning. The distribution of "dark l" and "light l" is called
>> complementary, because it's like Clark Kent and Superman, they are one and
>> the same entity and as a result you never find them in the same
>> environment, You always find the "light" nonsyllabic consonant /l/ at the
>> beginning of the word "little" and you never find it at the end.
>>
>> So one way to talk about the complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday is
>> to
>> say that they have basically the same identity (a Marxist theoretical
>> background, a monist, holistic methodology, a cultural historical
>> approach,
>> a semantic, "already socialized" view of consciousness but "personality as
>> individualized brain". But like some closeted straight guy who starts
>> frequenting gay bars, they are found in different environments, viz. the
>> study of thinking on the one hand and the study of speech on the other.
>> This is, actually, what Professor Wells proposes in his article.
>>
>> But another way to talk about this complementarity is messier. You see, in
>> phonetics, "overlapping distribution" means that two sounds ARE
>> interchangeable, but if you DO interchange them, you get a change in
>> meaning. So for example if you interchange the /t/ sound and the /l/ sound
>> in the word 'little" you come up with "tillet", which isn't exactly a
>> word,
>> but sounds vaguely like a name, or maybe a mispronunciation of "tilt" or
>> "tilled" or (if you are Korean or Japanese or Chinese) "turret". These are
>> differences in meaning. The distribution of /t/ and /l/ is called
>> overlapping because you DO find the two sounds in the same environment--at
>> the beginning of a syllable ("Ted" and "led"), in the middle ("betting"
>> and
>> "belling" and at the end ("sit" and "sill").
>>
>> So another way to talk about LSV and MAKH is to say that when you change
>> your point of view, you do get a change in meaning. For example, LSV
>> treats
>> the development of child language as essentially crisis-ridden. MAKH never
>> speaks of crises, although his way of modeling language as systems might
>> imply them. MAKH on the other hand treats context as something that is
>> language-generated, while LSV never talks like this, although his way of
>> modeling the social situation of development as a relationship between the
>> child and the environment might be considered compatible with this
>> view--but not exactly complementary.
>>
>> This latter way seems more likely to me. I think one of the things that
>> LSV
>> and MAKH have in common is that they would both reject the idea that the
>> study of consciousness and the study of language belong to entirely
>> different sciences, and they would equally reject any attempt to divide
>> that science from its practical applications. For that very reason, they
>> both have a rather "fuzzy" sense of what meaning is--they both think that
>> meaning kind of penumbral--bright and illuminating in the middle but
>> infinitely extendable and therefore not definite around the edges.
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> Recent Article in *Early Years*
>>
>> The question of questions: Hasan’s critiques, Vygotsky’s crises, and the
>> child’s first interrogatives
>> <https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874>
>>
>> Free e-print available at:
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 6:43 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for re-posting, Alfredo.
>> > Sorry about the broken link.
>> >
>> > I look forward to an educational experience!
>> >
>> > mike
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The link for subscribing to the MAKH discussion/symposium in Mike's
>> > e-mail
>> > > is broken in two lines. In case this creates difficulties to use it, I
>> > copy
>> > > it below in one line :
>> > >
>> > > https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xlsv-makh-l
>> > >
>> > > Alfredo
>> > > ________________________________________
>> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <
>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> > > on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>> > > Sent: 17 April 2018 19:38
>> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> > > Subject: [Xmca-l]  The Complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday
>> > >
>> > > Dear Colleagues,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Even before the death of Michael Halliday, I have been beginning to
>> > > organize a discussion on the joint work of Vygotsky and Halliday. In
>> this
>> > > case I am acting
>> > >
>> > > in my capacity as "special project" editor of *MCA*. I would like to
>> > create
>> > > either a seminar or perhaps a special issue, of MCA on the topic of
>> the
>> > > complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday. It is a project that is the
>> > > personal concern of several members of xmca, and beyond who share a
>> > common
>> > > interest in the study of langugage, culture, mind and development.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The question is, how to organize such a "joint project" symposium? I
>> do
>> > not
>> > > think
>> > >
>> > > it was to expect it to happen on xmca. There are too many topics
>> there,
>> > and
>> > > not everyone will be interested. And if everyone is interested we are
>> > still
>> > > likely to wander off on anoth interesting, related, topics, chaining
>> our
>> > > way through time.
>> > >
>> > > But this time we need a product. This product, of course, may contain
>> > > essays
>> > >
>> > > that argue that there is no such complementarity, and those too,
>> would be
>> > > welcome.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > To enable creation of such a product, based upon the materials turned
>> up,
>> > > discussed, and created in the discussion, Bruce has kindly set up for
>> us
>> > a
>> > > new
>> > >
>> > > discussion list called xlsv-makh. The process of signining up begins
>> with
>> > > the url given by Bruce below. We are asking people to subscribe in a
>> way
>> > > that will allow
>> > >
>> > > us to keep out bots and provide an archive of the discussion including
>> > the
>> > > common study materials collected.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Bruce explains it this way.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  Just tell people to go to https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailm
>> > > an/listinfo/xlsv-makh-l and follow the instructions for subscribing.
>> > >
>> > > Unsubscribing will be on the same web page.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *NOTE: The https:// is a link for anyone whose file has lost the blue
>> > > color
>> > > of a live linke*
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I have signed up. Everyone is welcome. Please post to whatever lists
>> you
>> > >
>> > > on that you think relevant, such as the AERA sig, ISCAR, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > As a kind of introduction to the idea of the complementarity LSV and
>> > MAKH I
>> > > am attaching a paper by Gordon Wells. Its sore of a candidate for
>> > starting
>> > > discussion. Those uncertain of whether to sign up or not might check
>> out
>> > > the paper to see if you are interested.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Mike Cole
>> > >
>> >
>>
>