[Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences

Fri Nov 17 23:53:40 PST 2017

Sorry to have misgendered Bennett and Brown -- :

http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/MrBennettAndMrsBrown.pdf

Beth

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 2:46 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Ulvi.  I AM sorry for the delay.  Sometimes I can not keep with
> XMCA's pace.
>
> At this point the thread has gone in too many (new for me) directions for
> me to follow, although the second reading looks very useful for me now --
> thank you, David.
>
> We were thinking of all consciousness as having an aesthetic form, but I
> am trying to develop this a little more in an upcoming chapter.
>
> I saw Pinar used Woolf's Mrs. Bennet and Mr. Brown and so went back to
> that -- I do suggest it to you if you have not read it!
>
> Beth
>
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Berth,
>>
>> >From your article with Nillson:
>>
>> to describe a perezhivanie, just
>> described as “the frame that makes life like art,” as an action: a means
>> of
>> creating the aesthetic form of
>> consciousness.
>>
>> Then, we can suppose that a poet, as an artist, if he is especially a
>> communist one, loaded with consciousness, who strives for creating the
>> aesthetic form of consciousness for others, can live life as a
>> perezhivanie
>> and can us make use of his own life to "teach life to others" and "to
>> fasten development of consciousness" (these two latter belon to Nazim
>> Hikmet, communist poet).
>>
>> I think your article with Nillson will be a very enligtening one.
>>
>> Ulvi
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 November 2017 at 18:33, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Robert, Thank you so much for this paper.  It is just what I need to
>> read
>> > NOW, for a chapter proposal I am reading.  Wonderful.
>> > Ulvi,  Thank you very much: I can send this congratulations back to my
>> > younger self : ) .
>> > Beth
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Robert Lake <
>> boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Thanks Beth!
>> > > I am reminded immediately of Pinar and Grumet's  notion of " Currere"
>> the
>> > > infinitive form of the Latin word curriculum.
>> > > which I continually use for and with my education students.
>> > > In 2004 Pinar explained that:
>> > >      The method of currere reconceptualized curriculum from course
>> > > objectives to complicated conversation with oneself
>> > >     (as a 'private' intellectual), an ongoing project of
>> > self-understanding
>> > > in which one becomes mobilized for engaged pedagogical action
>> > >      —as a private-and-public  intellectual – with others in the
>> social
>> > > reconstruction of the public sphere". *What is Curriculum Theory.*
>> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currere#cite_note-pinar2004-2>
>> > > This approach has been misrepresented as being "too Western and
>> linear"
>> > > but I think that is unfair. Your can use this anyway you want. It also
>> > > reminds me of LSV'S notion of the dialectic between inner speech
>> > > and public "performance."
>> > >
>> > > Here is a link to the groundbreaking paper from 1975.
>> > >
>> > > http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED104766.pdf
>> > >
>> > > Robert L.
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Before Mike introduced me to Vasilyuk -- who looks to Crime and
>> > > Punishment
>> > > > -- I thought the best place to go to think about a person's life,
>> > > formation
>> > > > and learning with something similar to perezhivanie at the center
>> was
>> > > > Virginia Woolf, To the Lighthouse and The Waves especially.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think the question of whether or not autobiography or poetry is
>> the
>> > > > better place to look is very interesting, and a response would have
>> > > > something to do with bodily sensations but also with suicide
>> because in
>> > > > suicide and some art you have an end point: In autobiography you
>> have
>> > the
>> > > > "I", I suppose, but you need to have the closure, too.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think you combine these two with the "going meta," and Woolf shows
>> > > > herself thinking about thinking ... so this is why her work is
>> helpful
>> > > > here.
>> > > > Beth
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Thank you Robert!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 8 Kas 2017 17:56 tarihinde "Robert Lake" <
>> > boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
>> > > > > yazdı:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi Andy, Ulvi and all!
>> > > > > > Thank-you for connecting autobiography and perezhivanie. Back in
>> > 1984
>> > > > > > before #meta became trendy,Jerome Bruner
>> > > > > > referred to this with his students this way.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > There was also talk about how people go beyond merely knowing
>> about
>> > > > > things
>> > > > > > to reflecting upon them in order to effect correction and
>> > > self-repair —
>> > > > > how
>> > > > > > to get students to reflect, to turn around on themselves, to go
>> > > "meta,"
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > think about their ways of thinking.
>> > > > > > —"Notes on the Cognitive Revolution" (*Interchange*
>> > > > > > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/h115766255987075/>, 1984.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > *Robert L.*
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Retrieved from :
>> > > > > > https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/its-getting-
>> > > > > > meta-all-the-time/
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I think autobiography is a genre which is very rich for the
>> > > > > > > study of perezhivanie; even the writing of the autobiography
>> > > > > > > itself is a part of the perezhivanie, as the writer looks
>> > > > > > > back over their life, and the experiences which have shaped
>> > > > > > > them, reassessing how they responded to events intervening
>> > > > > > > in their life and surviving. I think I mentioned Gorki's
>> > > > > > > multi-volume autobiography to you,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Andy
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > Andy Blunden
>> > > > > > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> > > > > > > On 7/11/2017 6:28 AM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Also the following "survival of culture" theme is said to
>> be a
>> > > > > > principal
>> > > > > > > > worry for Marina Tsvetaeva
>> > > > > > > > by this same Turkish professor on Russian language and
>> > > > literature...
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Anyway, another method to study "perezhivanie", I believe,
>> is
>> > to
>> > > > look
>> > > > > > > into
>> > > > > > > > theses on the life of such Russian poets, even if they do
>> not
>> > use
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > concept,
>> > > > > > > > we can be sure that there is a lot of  "perezhivanie" in
>> those
>> > > > > > theses...
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > probably because poets are the best human beings to study
>> > > > > > "perezhivanie"
>> > > > > > > > for reasons easy to conceive.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Especially when we think to Mayakovsky, Yesenin,
>> > Tsvetaeva...who
>> > > > all
>> > > > > > > > suicided, unfortunately.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On 6 November 2017 at 21:14, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >> It seems to me that the concept perezhivanie is a sine qua
>> non
>> > > > > concept
>> > > > > > > for
>> > > > > > > >> studying the lives and works of poets especially: Pushkin,
>> and
>> > > > many
>> > > > > > > others.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> I would say that a poet's life and work can not and should
>> not
>> > > be
>> > > > > > > studied
>> > > > > > > >> without this concept.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> Completely impossible.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> For instance, for Pushkin, a poem is a magical union of
>> > sounds,
>> > > > > > thoughts
>> > > > > > > >> and feelings, which fits completely with intellect and
>> affect,
>> > > > > > cognition
>> > > > > > > >> and emotion.
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> In case of some other poets, I would add "colours" because
>> for
>> > > > > > instance,
>> > > > > > > >> Nazim Hikmet (who is said to see the world in colours) says
>> > that
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > >> closest poet to him is Eluard and there is a thesis on
>> colour
>> > in
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > poems
>> > > > > > > >> of Eluard and Hikmet. (May this mean Pushkin was more
>> > sensitive
>> > > to
>> > > > > > > sounds
>> > > > > > > >> than colours? An outstanding Turkish professor on Russian
>> > > language
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > >> literature told me that there is not slightest deviation of
>> > > rythm
>> > > > in
>> > > > > > > >> Pushkin whereas there is in all others)
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> Do we know any example of any such study in Russian
>> > databases? A
>> > > > > poet
>> > > > > > > >> studied with "perezhivanie".
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >> On 4 November 2017 at 14:02, Andy Blunden <
>> ablunden@mira.net>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > >>> I would recommend Vasilyuk, but AN Leontyev should be read
>> > > > > > > >>> as well:
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
>> > > > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
>> > > > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> Andy
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > > >>> ------------------------------
>> ------------------------------
>> > > > > > > >>> Andy Blunden
>> > > > > > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> > > > > > > >>> On 4/11/2017 10:41 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
>> > > > > > > >>>> Dear all,
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> For a study on Turkish poet, also a painter and
>> playwright,
>> > > > Nazim
>> > > > > > > >>> Hikmet,
>> > > > > > > >>>> whom learning seems to be heavily determined from life
>> > > > experiences
>> > > > > > at
>> > > > > > > >>> each
>> > > > > > > >>>> stage of his life,
>> > > > > > > >>>> I am looking for a best theoretical approach in general
>> on
>> > > > > learning
>> > > > > > > from
>> > > > > > > >>>> life experiences, then more specifically for such great
>> > poets,
>> > > > > > > painters
>> > > > > > > >>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>> play writers.
>> > > > > > > >>>> Just to give a closer idea, please look at the section
>> below
>> > > > from
>> > > > > > his
>> > > > > > > >>>> novel, Life's good, brother.
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> I appreciate highly any idea, proposal on such a
>> theoretical
>> > > > > > approach.
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> Thank you.
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> Ulvi
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>> I sat down at the table in the Hôtel de France in Batum.
>> A
>> > > table
>> > > > > > with
>> > > > > > > >>>> carved legs—not just the legs but the whole gilded oval
>> > table
>> > > > was
>> > > > > > > >>> covered
>> > > > > > > >>>> with intricate carvings. Rococo . . . In the seaside
>> house
>> > in
>> > > > > > > Üsküdar, a
>> > > > > > > >>>> rococo
>> > > > > > > >>>> table sits in the guestroom. Ro-co-co . . . The journey I
>> > made
>> > > > > from
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > >>>> Black
>> > > > > > > >>>> Sea coast to Ankara, then from there to Bolu, the
>> > > > thirty-five-day,
>> > > > > > > >>>> thirty-fiveyear
>> > > > > > > >>>> journey on foot to the town where I taught school—in
>> short,
>> > to
>> > > > > make
>> > > > > > a
>> > > > > > > >>>> long story short, the encounter of a pasha’s
>> descendant—more
>> > > > > > > precisely,
>> > > > > > > >>> a
>> > > > > > > >>>> grandson—with Anatolia now rests on the rococo table in
>> the
>> > > > Hôtel
>> > > > > de
>> > > > > > > >>>> France in Batum, spread out over the table like a
>> tattered,
>> > > > dirty,
>> > > > > > > >>>> blood-stained
>> > > > > > > >>>> block-print cloth. I look, and I want to cry. I look,
>> and my
>> > > > blood
>> > > > > > > >>> rushes
>> > > > > > > >>>> to my
>> > > > > > > >>>> head in rage. I look, and I’m ashamed again. Of the
>> house by
>> > > the
>> > > > > sea
>> > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > >>>> Üsküdar. Decide, son, I say to myself, decide. The
>> decision
>> > > was
>> > > > > > made:
>> > > > > > > >>> death
>> > > > > > > >>>> before turning back. Wait, don’t rush, son. Let’s put the
>> > > > > questions
>> > > > > > on
>> > > > > > > >>> this
>> > > > > > > >>>> table, right next to Anatolia here. What can you
>> sacrifice
>> > for
>> > > > > this
>> > > > > > > >>> cause?
>> > > > > > > >>>> What
>> > > > > > > >>>> can you give? Everything. Everything I have. Your
>> freedom?
>> > > Yes!
>> > > > > How
>> > > > > > > >>>> many years can you rot in prison for this cause? All my
>> > life,
>> > > if
>> > > > > > > >>> necessary!
>> > > > > > > >>>> Yes, but you like women, fine dining, nice clothes. You
>> > can’t
>> > > > wait
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > >>>> travel,
>> > > > > > > >>>> to see Europe, Asia, America, Africa. If you just leave
>> > > Anatolia
>> > > > > > here
>> > > > > > > on
>> > > > > > > >>>> this
>> > > > > > > >>>> rococo table in Batum and go from Tbilisi to Kars and
>> back
>> > to
>> > > > > Ankara
>> > > > > > > >>> from
>> > > > > > > >>>> there, in five or six years you’ll be a senator, a
>> > > > minister—women,
>> > > > > > > >>> wining
>> > > > > > > >>>> and
>> > > > > > > >>>> dining, art, the whole world. No! If necessary, I can
>> spend
>> > my
>> > > > > whole
>> > > > > > > >>> life in
>> > > > > > > >>>> prison. Okay, but what about getting hanged, killed, or
>> > > drowned
>> > > > > like
>> > > > > > > >>> Mustafa
>> > > > > > > >>>> Suphi and his friends if I become a Communist—didn’t you
>> ask
>> > > > > > yourself
>> > > > > > > >>> these
>> > > > > > > >>>> questions in Batum? I did. I asked myself, Are you
>> afraid of
>> > > > being
>> > > > > > > >>>> killed? I’m not afraid, I said. Just like that, without
>> > > > thinking?
>> > > > > > No.
>> > > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > >>>> first knew
>> > > > > > > >>>> I was afraid, then I knew I wasn’t. Okay, are you ready
>> to
>> > be
>> > > > > > > disabled,
>> > > > > > > >>>> crippled, or made deaf for this cause? I asked. And TB,
>> > heart
>> > > > > > disease,
>> > > > > > > >>>> blindness? Blindness? Blindness . . . Wait a minute—I
>> hadn’t
>> > > > > thought
>> > > > > > > >>> about
>> > > > > > > >>>> going blind for this cause. I got up. I shut my eyes
>> tight
>> > and
>> > > > > > walked
>> > > > > > > >>> around
>> > > > > > > >>>> the room. Feeling the furniture with my hands, I walked
>> > around
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > room
>> > > > > > > >>> in
>> > > > > > > >>>> the darkness of my closed eyes. Twice I stumbled, but I
>> > didn’t
>> > > > > open
>> > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > >>> eyes.
>> > > > > > > >>>> Then I stopped at the table. I opened my eyes. Yes, I can
>> > > accept
>> > > > > > > >>> blindness.
>> > > > > > > >>>> Maybe I was a bit childish, a little comical. But this is
>> > the
>> > > > > truth.
>> > > > > > > Not
>> > > > > > > >>>> books or
>> > > > > > > >>>> word-of-mouth propaganda or my social condition brought
>> me
>> > > > where I
>> > > > > > am.
>> > > > > > > >>>> Anatolia brought me where I am. The Anatolia I had seen
>> only
>> > > on
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > >>>> surface, from the outside. My heart brought me where I
>> am.
>> > > > That’s
>> > > > > > how
>> > > > > > > >>> it is
>> > > > > > > >>>> .
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > Robert Lake  Ed.D.
>> > > > > > Associate Professor
>> > > > > > Social Foundations of Education
>> > > > > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
>> > > > > > Georgia Southern University
>> > > > > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA  30460
>> > > > > > Co-editor of *Review of Education, Pedagogy, and Cultural
>> Studies,*
>> > > > > vol.39,
>> > > > > > 2017
>> > > > > > Special issue: Maxine Greene and the Pedagogy of Social
>> > Imagination:
>> > > An
>> > > > > > Intellectual Genealogy.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >  http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gred20/39/1
>> > > > > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academ
>> ia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy
>> > > > must
>> > > > > be
>> > > > > > born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.*
>> John
>> > > > > > Dewey-*Democracy
>> > > > > > and Education*,1916, p. 139
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Beth Ferholt
>> > > > Associate Professor
>> > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
>> > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>> > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>> > > >
>> > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>> > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Robert Lake  Ed.D.
>> > > Associate Professor
>> > > Social Foundations of Education
>> > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
>> > > Georgia Southern University
>> > > P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA  30460
>> > > Co-editor of *Review of Education, Pedagogy, and Cultural Studies,*
>> > vol.39,
>> > > 2017
>> > > Special issue: Maxine Greene and the Pedagogy of Social Imagination:
>> An
>> > > Intellectual Genealogy.
>> > >
>> > >  http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gred20/39/1
>> > > Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy
>> must
>> > be
>> > > born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.* John
>> > > Dewey-*Democracy
>> > > and Education*,1916, p. 139
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Beth Ferholt
>> > Associate Professor
>> > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
>> > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>> > 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>> >
>> > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>> > Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> > Fax: (718) 951-4816
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Associate Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>

-- 
Beth Ferholt
Associate Professor
Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
Brooklyn College, City University of New York
2900 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
Phone: (718) 951-5205
Fax: (718) 951-4816