[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Sat Jul 15 21:26:12 PDT 2017
Firstly, the page of my 15 page article is devoted to
showing how if you begin from matter and consciousness you
inevitably fall into irretrievable contradictions, so that I
hope to convince the reader that it is worth reading the
next 14 pages in which activity is taken as the starting
point, not matter and consciousness. I have chosen to offer
this for discussion on a list devoted to Cultural Historical
ACTIVITY Theory because it seemed that such as audience
would be open to that idea.
The difficulty I think is grasping the philosophical level
at which I am deploying these concepts.
I am not formulating a new theory of physics, Greg. But you
want my opinion on gravity. Gravity is a concept of natural
science originating in the 17th century, expressing the
observation of a tendency of bodies to accelerate towards
each other at a rate proportional to the product of the
inertial mass of the two bodies and inversely proportional
to the square of the distance between them. As a result of
Einstein's revolution in physics where he refused to take
time and space and gravity as entities existing
independently of human activity, but rather as interrelated
properties of the human activity of measurement, the concept
of gravity underwent a modification, in which it is shown to
be implicit in the measurement of accelerated frames of
reference. But I am not a physicist and maybe I have screwed
this up a bit. But of course, I have only told you about the
concept of gravity, and you asked me about gravity itself,
as something existing independently of the practice of
measuring gravity. I don't know about that. What I've read
of Einstein tells me that gravity is a appearance. What I
will say though is that the concept of gravity has a
relatively sound basis in human practice. If I was an
electron I would not know about gravity.
Matter (in the context in which I am speaking, i.e., not in
a lesson on Physics) is a philosophical concept which
denotes all that exists outside of consciousness. That is
the definition of matter. If you want to define matter
differently that's fine, but radical revisions of ontology
should not be done lightly. Please try reading past the
first page where I spruke the virtues of Activity as a
foundational concept, rather than consciousness and matter.
But if you are really stuck on matter and consciousness, I
have a talk exclusively on this question
https://www.academia.edu/9989816/Matter_and_Consciousness
and a one hour video too
https://vimeo.com/groups/301100/videos/121234193
My reference to psychokinesis was not a misinterpretation.
My point was based on the confidence that don't believe in
psychokinesis. Why not?
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
On 16/07/2017 1:27 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> Yes, difficult indeed! (and you've been doing a fair bit
> of misinterpreting as well - psychokinesis? As if!).
> If you won't take my gravity question then can I bother
> you to ask for an explanation of what you mean when you
> say that matter exists outside of consciousness?
> I'm sincerely trying to understand the position that you
> are setting out, but lots of stumbling blocks along the way.
> -greg
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> Communication is hard, isn't it? You have interpreted
> what I have said in the exact 100% opposite of my
> meaning, Greg.
>
> The European Rationalists and Empiricists of the
> Enlightenment broke with the monism of the Catholic
> Church and proposed that matter existed outside of and
> independently of human consciousness but the nature of
> matter could be known by the respective programs of
> rationalism and empiricism. This is the view which
> guided the development of philosophy and science in
> the West and remains common sense to this day.
>
> *Hegel proposed a viable alternative to this ontology*
>
> But he did not do that by providing "new" definitions
> of matter and consciousness. He proposed a new monist
> starting point and reconstructed an entire world view
> beginning from that single concept which, in the
> spirit of his own times, he called "Spirit". I call it
> "Activity" and the article shows that this
> interpretation is true to Hegel's intention.
>
> So please, rather than imagining how matter and
> consciousness could somehow get mixed up with one
> another and we can discover psychokinesis and tell the
> future with dreams, be open to taking Activity as the
> substance of a world view.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> On 16/07/2017 4:45 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> I must confess to being entirely confused by your
> suggestion that "matter is everything outside of
> consciousness". It sounds like you are starting
> the conversation by saying "there is matter on the
> one hand and there is consciousness on the other
> hand and never the twain shall meet." Perhaps that
> is an essential starting point for understanding
> activity, but I would at least like to imagine it
> could be otherwise.
>
> In my work I am trying to
> do this work of imagining
> how it could be otherwise. I'm trying to think of
> this another way
> , t
> o get a grip on things in some way that does not
> split the world in two
> right at the get-go
> .
>
> I assume that for you this is an ontological
> commitment. You start by assuming (asserting?
> realizing?) that there are two types of things in
> the world - matter and consciousness. I'd rather
> not start there. Because this involves a
> disagreement in our starting assumptions, I don't
> suspect we'll get very far with that conversation
> (and we've dabbled in that conversation before and
> indeed we haven't gotten anywhere).
>
> So I thought I would ask a slightly different
> question: what is the nature of gravity? Is it
> more like matter or more like consciousness (in
> that one could imagine gravity being something
> "outside" of matter in the sense that you are
> saying "consciousness" is outside of matter)? I
> know you are committed to non-dualism in some
> sense and I'm just trying to figure out how you
> reconcile all of this.
>
> In solidarity,
> -greg
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>
> No, it would be spreading confusion, Greg.
>
> "Matter" in this context is everything outside
> of my
> consciousness. "Activity" in this context is
> human,
> social practice. Moving attention to the
> sub-atomic
> level, a field where we have no common sense,
> sensuous
> knowledge, does not help.
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>>
>
> On 15/07/2017 2:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>
> Andy,
> Just musing here but I'm wondering if
> "matter" is
> anything more than activity, particularly when
> considered at the sub-atomic level.
> At that level, matter seems a lot more
> like the
> holding of relations in some activity (not so
> different from the Notion?).
> Or would that be taking things too far?
> -greg
>
> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
>
> Anyone who got interested in that
> material about
> "Hegel on Action", here is my
> contribution.
>
> https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
>
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>
>
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
>
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>>
>
> Andy
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>>
>
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>>>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
More information about the xmca-l
mailing list