[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action
Greg Thompson
greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
Sat Jul 15 11:50:32 PDT 2017
James,
I agree that vygotsky, Saussure, and Pierce are playing in the same general
activity (semiotics/semiology), but I think they are playing very different
games. The strongest contrast seems to be between pierce and Saussure, and
with radical and important consequences. Benjamin Lee's book Talking Heads
is fantastic at sussing out this difference, and Webb Keane has also done
some excellent writing on the issue. Keane's work is particularly relevant
in his semiotics of materiality.
Perhaps of interest?
-greg
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 8:26 AM, James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy, apologies for my digression from your point. The sign resides both
> within and outside the mind - this is my understanding from reading Peirce.
> Somehow the effect of your article (I'm still reading it) on me is that it
> makes me think more and more into Peirce...
>
> My understanding of "the material" is both interpretative and observable.
>
> Although I read Peirce and Vygotsky, the Saussurean/Hallidayan imagery is
> always present in my mind (due to a linguistics background). Anyway, I feel
> these thinkers sit together quite comfortably - all their ideas are
> complementary - and can be distilled into one word: semiotics.
>
> James
>
> *_____________________________________*
>
> *James Ma* *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
> <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>*
>
>
>
> On 15 July 2017 at 13:28, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > James, I think you're using "material" in some specific sense which is
> > unknown to me. It seems to me to be something to do with body language as
> > opposed to speech, maybe practical consciousness rather than discursive
> > consciousness. "Material" understood as meaning "made of matter" would
> > simply be the opposite of "in my imagination". I find it difficult to get
> > my head around the idea of a "sign in the mind" and if "mind" was some
> > place other than the material world where a sign could be located. I'm
> sure
> > what you are talking about is perfectly good, but I can't relate it to
> the
> > absolutely basic ontological issue which you raised out of my paper about
> > action.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > On 15/07/2017 8:15 PM, James Ma wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for such helpful explanation, Andy.
> >> Regarding my last question, I mean one's feeling or sense perception
> >> involved in social practice in a social context possesses the material
> >> quality of a psychic image (a sign in the mind). This material quality
> can
> >> be one's facial expression or bodily movement connected with a
> particular
> >> feeling.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> /_____________________________________/
> >>
> >> */James Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15 July 2017 at 09:42, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> James, the meaning for words such as "material" and to
> >> a lesser extent the other words in your message have
> >> meanings which are extremely context (or discourse)
> >> dependent. The Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy
> >> doesn't have a definition of Matter, considering it
> >> only in relation to Form, but their definition of
> >> Substance will do the trick. I follow Lenin and
> >> Vygotsky in my understanding of matter. (Hegel didn't
> >> like to use the word, because he took it as too linked
> >> to Atomism. Marx used "material" in a very specific
> >> way to do with reproduction of the means of life.)
> >>
> >> As to the philosophical meaning of "matter" I think I
> >> said it in the paper as succinctly as possible. If
> >> it's in the mind then it is not material. I can't make
> >> sense of your last question.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Andy Blunden
> >> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> decision-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>
> >>
> >> On 15/07/2017 6:28 PM, James Ma wrote:
> >>
> >> This is interesting to me, Andy. Do you rule out
> >> anything that has material quality but is actually
> >> associated with a mental sign (a sign in the mind,
> >> as Peirce would say)? Do you consider social
> >> practice (you mentioned earlier) to be tinted with
> >> the intrapsychological within oneself?
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> /_____________________________________/
> >>
> >> */James
> >> Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> >> <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 15 July 2017 at 07:11, Andy Blunden
> >> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> No, it would be spreading confusion, Greg.
> >>
> >> "Matter" in this context is everything outside
> >> of my
> >> consciousness. "Activity" in this context is
> >> human,
> >> social practice. Moving attention to the
> >> sub-atomic
> >> level, a field where we have no common sense,
> >> sensuous
> >> knowledge, does not help.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> -----------------------------
> >> -------------------------------
> >> Andy Blunden
> >> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> >> on-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>
> >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>>
> >>
> >> On 15/07/2017 2:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >> Andy,
> >> Just musing here but I'm wondering if
> >> "matter" is
> >> anything more than activity, particularly when
> >> considered at the sub-atomic level.
> >> At that level, matter seems a lot more
> >> like the
> >> holding of relations in some activity (not so
> >> different from the Notion?).
> >> Or would that be taking things too far?
> >> -greg
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Andy Blunden
> >> <ablunden@mira.net
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone who got interested in that
> >> material about
> >> "Hegel on Action", here is my
> >> contribution.
> >>
> >> https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/
> 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/3388
> >> 7830/Hegel_on_Action
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/
> 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>>
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Andy Blunden
> >> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> >> on-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>
> >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>>
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products
> >> /book/origins-collective-decision-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>
> >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> >> decision-making>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >> Assistant Professor
> >> Department of Anthropology
> >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >> Brigham Young University
> >> Provo, UT 84602
> >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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