[Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action?

[Andy Blunden]

Yes, I think so. I don't deny the reality of identity, or 
that self-identity is a powerful determinate of activity. 
The point is whether and at what depth identity is 
explanatory. If I say "I am a socialist" I would find an 
explanation of this to be quite fatuous that went along the 
lines of me having a need to express my identity and finding 
that using the words and symbols of socialism and attending 
socialist events fulfilled that need. Likewise, to explain 
my affection for my partner and the effort I put it to look 
after her in terms of my need to maintain my identity as a 
member of this family or as a carer, equally facile. I think 
the causal connections run in the other direction.

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making 

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Stephen Walsh 
<stephenwals@gmail.com <mailto:stephenwals@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on
>     a little tighter   :)
>     Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the
>     minimal group experiments to favour our ingroup the
>     same impulse that drives us to give and accept social
>     support?  I think it may be.
>
>     On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden
>     <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>         That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any
>         "drive to express identity" in there. I do think
>         there is a drive to form and preserve social
>         bonds, but this is not the *expression* of
>         affiliative identity; perhaps the source of
>         "affiliative identity," and the objective basis
>         for an imposed identity (as opposed to a
>         self-identity), but not something created by a
>         desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity.
>
>         Yes?
>
>         Andy
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>         Andy Blunden
>         http://home.mira.net/~andy
>         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>         http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
>         On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote:
>
>             Hi Andy,
>             I think that the answer is both.  I think we
>             need to think of identities as heterogeneous
>             rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity
>             (dis)continuity following brain injury is
>             instructive. Research we have conducted with
>             brain injury survivors taking part in post
>             acute community neurorehabilitiation shows
>             that identities deriving from the groups we
>             belong to (affiliative identities; e.g.
>             familiy) generate social support which
>             facilitates the formation of 'self as doer'
>             identities (e.g. painter, walker etc etc).
>             Best Regards,
>             Stephen
>
>             On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden
>             <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>             <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>             <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>
>                 I would be interested in any helpful
>             comments (other
>                 than suggestions for more books to read)
>             from my xmca
>                 psychologist friends on this problem.
>
>                 In discussion with a friend, who is very
>             au fait with
>                 contemporary social philosophy, but knows
>             nothing of
>                 CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas
>             intended to be
>                 explanatory (rather than descriptive) of
>             current
>                 social and political trends. He talks
>             about the rise
>                 of "expressive authenticity" since the
>             1970s and
>                 "collective action as a means to express
>             selfhood." In
>                 response, I questioned whether there is
>             any such thing
>                 as a drive to *express* one's identity,
>             and that
>                 rather, collective action (and there is
>             fundamentally
>                 no other kind of action) in pursuit of
>             needs of all
>                 kinds (spiritual, social and material) is
>             *formative*
>                 of identity.
>
>                 A classic case for analysis is the well-known
>                 observation that nowadays people purchase
>             (clothes,
>                 cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing
>             their
>                 identity. I question this, because it
>             presumes that
>                 there is the innate drive to express one's
>             identity,
>                 which I see no evidence for. I think
>             people adopt
>                 dress styles in much the same way that
>             people carry
>                 flags - to promote a movement they think
>             positive and
>                 to gain social acceptance in it.
>             Identity-formation is
>                 a *result* not a cause of this.
>
>                 So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a
>             result or a
>                 cause of activity?
>
>                 Andy
>
>
>                 --   
>              ------------------------------------------------------------
>                 Andy Blunden
>             http://home.mira.net/~andy
>             <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>             <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>             http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>             <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>                
>             <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>             <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>>
>
>
>
>
>
>