[Xmca-l] Re: Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky

Sun Apr 9 09:56:07 PDT 2017

Perhaps, Michael.

Lets see what Pablo and Amelia have to say.
mike

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 9:43 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

> My hunch would be that he was heading toward a Marxian perspective. In a
> 2006 article in SEMIOTICA (appended), I showed how when you replace
> "commodity" in *Das Kapital *by "sign" and all examples of commodities by
> examples of signs, you get texts that could have been written by
> philosophers of difference.
> At the time, I didn't understand much of Vygotsky, the earlier or the
> later---I guess, I still don't if you take as a measure everything we, as a
> culture, know about his writing and thinking---and I was still thinking
> more in the old way. But I already did suggest that we can think
> differently about language, moving away from reference and "meaning."
> Michael
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
> Applied Cognitive Science
> MacLaurin Building A567
> University of Victoria
> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>
> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-
> directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-
> mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Larry,
> > The late Vygotsky quote you offered sounds very much like Peirce (P was
> > critical of "correspondence" theories of semiosis (V's NOT a relation
> > between sound and thing), and the intrepretant is about the holding of a
> > particular sign relation in the same way as another (V's unity)). Perhaps
> > Vygotsky's late turn was from a Saussurean understanding of the sign to a
> > Peircean one?
> > -greg
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:36 AM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alfredo,
> > > I offer a quote from the ‘later’ Vygotsky that you cite in your article
> > > that may prime the pump:
> > >
> > > Language is NOT the relation between a sound and a denoted thing.  It
> is
> > > the relation between the speaker and the listener, the relation between
> > > people directed toward an object.  IT IS THE INTERPSYCHIC REACTION THAT
> > > ESTABLISHES THE UNITY OF TWO ORAGANISMS IN THE SAME ORIENTATION, Toward
> > an
> > > object
> > >
> > > The focus hear on ‘establishing the UNITY’ of teacher and student IN
> > their
> > > orientation.
> > > The IN includes (within)
> > >
> > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
> > >
> > > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > > Sent: April 9, 2017 5:21 AM
> > > To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky
> > >
> > > Alfredo,
> > > I have been slowly reading (and digesting) your and Wolff-Michael’s
> > > article (Theorizing – with/out mediators) that joins the current
> ‘takes’
> > on
> > > the later Vygotsky.
> > >
> > > My impression (and appreciation) of this emerging tradition is
> > significant
> > > as  an enlarging of the scope and ‘re-working’ of the Vygotsky who was
> > > known in the process of moving into the West European  and North
> Atlantic
> > > form of theorizing.
> > >
> > > I am reading your article in relation to the notion of ‘playworlds’ and
> > > ‘spielraum’ (translated playrooms).
> > >
> > > A key re-working of (mediation) has to do with re/thinking triangle
> > > diagrams as static (with mediation at the apex).
> > > This generates a PREsumption of two variables at the base of the
> triangle
> > > assumed as (elements, essences, things) that inter/act through an
> > > ‘intermediary’ third (element, essence, thing).
> > > Your article indicates this is the classical or canonical version of
> > > (mediation) as the third thing/element through which the other two
> > > things/elements become changed or develop.
> > >
> > > Your re-working of (mediation) adds the temporal, duration, and (unit
> of
> > > analysis) and implies it is not the elements or parts that each
> > > individually change or develop (classic intermediary model of elements
> > > transformed by going through a third element IN a triangle with an apex
> > > mediator)
> > > But rather
> > > There are only relation of (within UNITS).
> > > When a tool, technique, sign, word, artifact) develops then the ENTIRE
> > > UNIT (not elements) develops.
> > >
> > > Alfredo, I personally believe your approach (currently re-working
> > > classical and Western canonical versions) deserves to have its own
> > (place)
> > > as a subsection on the XMCA site. To become more clear on this ‘later’
> > > Vygotsky.
> > > Then a conversation may generate that puts in question this re-working
> > > BUT
> > > In a spirit of ‘play’ in rooms.
> > > A movement back and forth, oscillating, spiralling, developing, and
> never
> > > reaching a determinate conclusion, once and forever.
> > >
> > > Putting in play triangles with mediators at the apex as static
> diagrams.
> > > More open, fluid, theorizing with ANDA WITHOUT ‘mediators’ as we play
> > with
> > > these notions.
> > >
> > > I recommend others read the article ‘Theorizing with/out mediators’.
> > > Reading the (/) to mean interval where we tarry awhile in a spirit of
> > > re-working theorizing with/out mediators.
> > >
> > > I believe we need to create a subsection on XMCA to let these notions
> > > percolate and permeate the more classical boundary markers.
> > >
> > > My way of saying your article is a pro-found re-working of the notions
> of
> > > (within) and (without) and (mediation) at the core of this re-working
> > > PRE-assumptions.
> > >
> > > My morning muse
> > >
> > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
> > >
> > > From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
> > > Sent: April 8, 2017 10:20 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Current takes on the 'later' Vygotsky
> > >
> > > Hi Esteban,
> > >
> > > yes, things have been a little quiet lately, but there have been few
> > > threads going on, perhaps most importantly the one discussing Jang's
> > (this
> > > issue's) paper on multi-ethnic issues on Second Language.
> > >
> > > Other threads have seemed to resonate on recent articles/works
> attempting
> > > to re-work (or work further) some of Vygotsky's key concepts, in
> > particular
> > > ZPD and Mediation (with a couple of articles having been circulated).
> > >
> > > Connecting to the latter, it seems that several of those efforts are
> > > making emphasis on Vygotsky's later period, suggesting that much of the
> > > prior and current uptakes have focused almost exclusively on the
> > > instrumental aspects that were more salient in his middle period, and
> not
> > > so much on the lines of inquiry that the psychologist was opening never
> > had
> > > the chance to pursue.
> > >
> > > I attach yet another such work, this time by del Río and Álvarez. Much
> is
> > > being written about how and to what extent Vygotsky was revising his
> own
> > > prior work. This one tells as more about that, and does so both in
> > English
> > > and in Spanish.
> > >
> > > I wonder how do xmca'ers (who likely are busy reading world news as
> > things
> > > are getting more and more perplexing) feel and think about this
> > > tendency/prospect in cultural-historical theory literature.
> > >
> > > Alfredo
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >
> > > on behalf of Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 09 April 2017 03:11
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie,
> Apophasis
> > > ... and TRUMP'S speech!
> > >
> > > Hi, Esteban -
> > >
> > > Things have been a little quiet recently. I suspect my co-xmca-ers in
> the
> > > US are either mid-semester or digging in on big projects that will have
> > > some significance, hopefully, given what we’re dealing with here.
> > >
> > > You may or may not be aware that our new Secretary of Education is the
> > > sister of Erik Prince, http://www.ibtimes.com/who-
> > > betsy-devos-brother-erik-princes-involvement-blackwater-chinese-money-
> > > laundering-2493834
> > >
> > > Just a hint of what is happening to education, top to bottom, in the
> US.
> > >
> > >
> > > Helena
> > >
> > >
> > > Helena Worthen
> > > helenaworthen@gmail.com
> > > Berkeley, CA 94707
> > > Blog about US and Viet Nam: helenaworthen.wordpress.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Apr 8, 2017, at 3:15 PM, Stephen Diaz <EDiaz@csusb.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bruce,
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if you are still the one for xmcc but I am not getting any
> > > emails from that list serve.  Can you please check on that.  I still
> want
> > > to continue on it if possible.  Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Esteban Diaz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.
> edu
> > >
> > > on behalf of Bruce Jones <bjones@ucsd.edu>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 3:23 PM
> > > > To: mike cole; Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Playworlds, Performance, Perezhivanie,
> Apophasis
> > > ... and TRUMP'S speech!
> > > >
> > > > On 2/5/17 2:39 PM, mike cole wrote:
> > > >> Bruce's email is not bouncing from san diego.
> > > >> Perhaps there is only one c in unsubscribe?
> > > >
> > > > Spelling mistakes will not cause bounces.  I do the unsubscribes by
> > hand
> > > > in order to make sure they are removed from the database.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Bruce Jones
> > > > Sys Admin, LCHC
> > > > bjones@ucsd.edu
> > > > 619-823-8281
> > > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >
>