[Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception of visualillusions.

[Larry Purss]

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 4:42 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

> Larry,
> As always, your post informs and inspires, though I doubt my own will be
> inspirational. I don’t mean it to be, even when how I say something seems
> to aspire to inspiration.
>
> Saccadic eye movements have especially been on my radar since I read that
> they are important to understanding both the cognitive grammar of Langacker
> and the gap minding of the CHAT. (Though Langacker devotes much less ink to
> it than the CHAT people.) It’s all about imagination. And CAN be about
> creativity, when imagination is disciplined and ethical. Or so I see it.
>
> Visual illusions are the key to magic. Misdirection. The idea that the
> world in our mind is simply a faithful, “factual" replica of the world “out
> there” is hard to shake. I would say that magic ranks up there with gesture
> as a generative metaphor for what it is to be and act as a  human.
>
> I like the juxtaposition of structure and fluency, think it captures the
> connection between grammar and language use, grammar being usage based. You
> elaborate on reading fluency, but the idea is general, as you say:
> > "I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond
> "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas
> within our acts.
> > This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner
> feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a
> single person's mind.”
>
> The idea of the “'inner feeling’ of the event” is intriguing. Would that
> relate in any way to inner speech, the way Vygotsky construes it? As in,
> how do I know what I am going to write until I’ve written it?
>
> I also like the juxtaposition of fluency and rhythm. Temporality. Somehow,
> the temporal domain seems to me to be the most basic of basic domains, even
> more basic than the spatial domain. Though I can’t prove it. It certainly
> feels that way to me. Does this go beyond the inner feeling in my
> individual mind?
>
> Henry
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Henry,
> > The saccadic eye movements indicating the centrality of minding the gap
> is literally a fact.
> > The question which this fact opens is the factor of gaps within other
> event structures.
> > For example when exploring structures being generated  we imagine
> "bridges" linking and overcoming the gaps between.
> > However minding the gap indicates the profound necessity of the gap
> ITSELF.
> > If we fail to "mind" (or bridge) the gap is the gap still a constitutive
> aspect IN ITSELF?
> > For example, with gesture, there is the rhythmic movement in relation to
> the other. However, besides the two participants moving in rhythm is the
> reality of the gap (or intervals) that "open" within the rhythmic gestures
> also another profoundly relevant factor in the ensuing rhythmic gestures?
> > I am "reading" the concept "gap" as a key metaphor.
> > Eric Fromm described western notions of God as residing in a person's
> beliefs (thoughts) of God.
> > In contrast Buddhism and Taoism focus not on beliefs but on right
> "action". They also have sophisticated elaborations of the "gap".
> > I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond
> "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas
> within our acts.
> > This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner
> feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a
> single person's mind.
> >
> > A concrete example is the structure of the concept "reading fluency".
> Three characteristics have been "identified in this concept (word accuracy
> - rate of words in a measured time - prosody or tone).
> > I am suggesting this third characteristic -prosody/tone - is the "inner
> feeling" within the event of reading fluency.
> > This has to do with rhythm and gaps.
> > Are saccadic eye movements and the rhythm of prosody  sharing a family
> resemblance (not an identity) that comes back to Dewey's notion of having
> an experience?
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> > Sent: ‎2015-‎10-‎01 12:40 PM
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception of
> visualillusions.
> >
> > Something that has intrigued me, and may be relevant to the thread, has
> been how I can “freeze” the movement of my overhead fans by voluntarily
> jerking my eyes back and forth as I gaze at the revolving fan blades. When
> I keep my eyes fixed, the blades blur. When I jerk my eyes back and forth,
> the blades seem to stop. Or so I perceive it. In the Pelaprat & Cole
> article (2011) on mending the gap, Etienne and Mike discuss saccadic eye
> movements as “central to the perception of the world”.
> > Henry
> >
> >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:06 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 1 October 2015 at 19:27, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So it's filling the gap again!  :)
> >>>
> >>
> >> Or minding it, yes.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Martin
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:13, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:11, Martin John Packer <
> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Huw,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Might this be an artifact of the digital encoding of the video?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Could you head to a tube station and try it with a real train?  :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I suspect you'd need strobe lighting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Huw
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> E.g.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://vimeo.com/116582567
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Martin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I came across this meme/advert on linkedin, which is an animation
> of a
> >>>>>> tube
> >>>>>>> train:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> https://buffer-pictures.s3.amazonaws.com/c2f41e8d32861d26bdecfc62f0d979e3.f009ceaeaf27dba4eb65f2ca247e9513.php
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ignoring the glib annotation, it did seem to be a little
> interesting
> >>> to
> >>>>>>> discover if there was a reliable way to manipulate the perception
> of
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> direction of the train.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Interestingly, this is something that I find I can do by imagining
> >>> that
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> can see an object within the train moving in the direction I wish,
> so
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> perceived direction can be switched at will -- i.e. the perception
> of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> train can be shuttled back and forth.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not sure whether conditioning of memories of living in London
> >>> would
> >>>>>>> influence this (it is a London tube train).  Also, the speed at
> which
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> train is going suggests its going away, because a train coming
> into a
> >>>>>>> platform would usually, I think, be going slower.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>> Huw
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
>