[Xmca-l] Re: CoExperiencing as a Philosophy of Practice.

[Andy Blunden]

and I think there is a dire need for such a convergence as well.
One of the contributing factors to the anti-science currents 
which can lead to great medical, political and social 
problems is antipathy to one particular, dominant *style* of 
science, and I think entanglement between science and the 
arts promotes a broader feel for different styles of science.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 7/11/2015 12:15 PM, mike cole wrote:
> Larry, I strongly believe that there is a convergence of humanities and
> social/behavioral sciences going on as one thread of academic discourse
> congenial to CHAT. A real good location for pursuing it is. The Comm dept
> at UCSD, if we add the arts as part off the mix.
> That's my story at least. :-)
>
> Mike
>
> On Friday, November 6, 2015, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought I would add the last paragraph of Alex Kozulin's review of
>> Vasiliyuk's book.
>>
>> By choosing the literary model of human experiencing, Vasilyuk affirms his
>> adherence to the humanistic, rather than scientific approach to human
>> psychology. His work can also be seen as a blueprint for the future
>> convergence of humanistic psychology with Vygotsky’s cultural-historical
>> theory of human development .
>>
>> This premonition that some  new convergence is on the horizon. The coming
>> intersection forming a hybrid character.
>> Do others agree that we may be moving in the direction of a *literary
>> model*?
>> The discussion of White's narrative approach [using Bruner's notion of
>> scaffolding] may be an example.
>>
>>   Vasilyuk's key understanding as expressed in his concept of consciousness
>> that has two essential aspects [and their relations]
>> *stratigraphy* as layered registers of depth or height. Each *layer* is a
>> life-world.
>> *structure* of the smallest molecule as unit of consciousness IS a *mental
>> image*  A mental image having the structure of the two magnetic poles and
>> the dynamic of consciousness moving within this dynamic *image*  like the
>> flow of plasma.  Depth of layers AND mental images interact generating
>> consciousness.
>>
>> Vasilyuk's philosophy of practice as 1st order word that is originating
>> within the liminal spaces on the boundaries OF humanistic THEORY and
>> cultural historical THEORY of human development.
>>
>> Consciousness as the originating site of meaning-GENERATION forming within
>> co-experiencing *situations*.  In other words situated consciousness as
>> working experience.
>>
>> This is a fragment but does express a *tone*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike, the declaration that cultural mediation [in particular the symbolic
>>> level] is a key element can put aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy
>>> and turn to Vygotsky's own way of including this symbolic level of
>>> coexperiencing. Listen for the implicit movement marking the felt sense
>> of
>>> having *fallen away* from a *source* and then finding one's way back to
>> the
>>> *source* [and in this return entering *deeper* levels.  I am referring to
>>> page 62 of Vasiliyuk's article "Prayer Silence, Psychotherapy".
>>>
>>> Vygotsky is exploring  a *deeper* layer for experiencing suffering. Not a
>>> hedonistic flight from suffering, not masochistic consolation, not
>> routine
>>> platitudes [always a silver lining] but a spiritual sublimation of
>> sorrow.
>>> Elevating and deepening into the layer of experiencing the *source* by
>>> transforming this suffering by return to the eternal.
>>> Vygotsky images his life as *my star* in the heavens *marked* by sorrow.
>>> His personal life and his Jewish life *marked* by sorrow. BUT this star
>> is
>>> IN THE HEAVENS.  So the meaning of suffering [the falling away from the
>>> source] is not in fleeing from the suffering but in returning to the
>>> *source* [the eternal, the deepest layer of consciousness] . The meaning
>> is
>>> *found* in the ELEVATION of suffering, elevtion on the wing OF A PRAYER
>> TO
>>> GOD. The transformation of suffering IN GOD.
>>>
>>> Vygotsky's metaphor is a personal particular  *image* expressing a deeply
>>> felt layer of experience. But within the particular unique felt image
>> there
>>> is a general [not universal] plot [mytheme] that is historically
>>> traceable developing  symbolic cultural imaginary.
>>>
>>> The plot can shift what is *source* [God, sublime, the *self*] and this
>>> can be historically traced[including the work of experiencing the
>> authentic
>>> true *self* in psychology].
>>>
>>>   Suzanne Kirschner has traced these transformations in this myth from
>>> religious origins, transformed within the Romantic movement, and shifting
>>> into psychological theories today.
>>>
>>> The point I am offering is that Vygotsky as Vasilyuk his project was
>>> touched by this mytheme. Peirce in his speculative musings, also was
>> pulled
>>> into this mytheme.
>>>
>>> I am not suggesting this plot is fundamental or foundational but the
>>> yearning for this plot to be universal envelops and embodies us into this
>>> particular myth and is experienced as a deeply felt *truth*. It is only
>> one
>>> of the *key elements* but it is a significant one of the keys to the
>>> philosophy of practice.
>>> The shift to secular themes [such as naturalism] does not change the
>>> underlying plot structure but does change the images that *have us*.
>>> Vygotsky saw his *star* ELEVATED to the heavens that transforms suffering
>>> which is the experience existing within a symbolic truth,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Larry--
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your continuing explication of your reading of Vasiliuk.
>>>> Putting
>>>> aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy for a moment, I am totally behind
>>>> the delaration
>>>> that  *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT", plus
>>>> co-experiencing as the necessary condition for that cultural mediation.
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> Vasilyuk is developing the *philosophy of Practice* as a
>> psychotechnical
>>>>> *system*.
>>>>> He says in his historical outline of the different *basic foundations*
>>>> on
>>>>> which psychology has relied [from suggestibility to *becoming aware*
>> to
>>>>> *emancipation* to reliance on learning  to reliance on experiencing to
>>>> the
>>>>> current reliance on experiencing [as existential/humanistic] which is
>>>>> intersecting with todays reliance on productively producing internal
>>>>> psychological transformations oriented to enriching the meaning of
>>>> being.
>>>>> Vasilyuk says the task exploring the changing reliances of psychology
>>>> as a
>>>>> practice is not to describe the *factual* history of psychology and
>> the
>>>>> reliances of psychotherapy but to elicit the logic of history. In
>> other
>>>>> words to *listen* to the evolving IMPLICIT plot that gives meaning and
>>>>> direction to the subsequent acts of the development of psychology.
>> (page
>>>>> 11)
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the key elements Vasilyuk identifies is the concept of
>> *cultural
>>>>> mediation of experiences*. He says:
>>>>> Historically cumulative experiencings with standard situations
>>>> crystallize
>>>>> in various SYMBOLIC FORMS; when a person experiences crises, his
>>>>> consciousness might get connected to these symbolic forms, an so the
>>>>> process of experiencing, without losing its personality-oriented
>>>>> uniqueness, gains ADDITIONAL DEPTH AND PRODUCTIVITY. (page 18).
>>>>>
>>>>> It is this additional depth and productivity as symbolic that Vasilyuk
>>>> is
>>>>> generating within his evolving implicit *plot* oriented to
>> transforming
>>>>> psychology in order to enrich the meaning of being.  This is also the
>>>> theme
>>>>> Vasilyuk is relying on in his other article *Prayer, Silence, and
>>>>> Psychotherapy*. This is the living symbol of prayer on the boundary of
>>>>> experiencing and silence/stillness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is Vygotsky exploring the *depth* of symbolism in his own words:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ophelia's tragedy [a personification] is exactly LIKE a lyrical
>>>>> accompaniment, that towers over the entire play, which is full of the
>>>>> dreadful torment of INEXPRESSIBILITY, of the most profound dark,
>>>>> mysterious, and SACRED melodies that in some incomprehensible and
>>>>> miraculous way REVEAL AND EMBODY what is most exciting, most allusive,
>>>> and
>>>>> touchingly important, what is DEEPEST AND DARKEST, but what is most
>>>> tragic
>>>>> that is OVERCOME and enlightened, and what IS MOST MYSTICAL in the
>>>> entire
>>>>> play. Thus tragedy turns into PRAYER .... as though with an oblational
>>>> and
>>>>> expiatory and PRAYERFUL light, it gives religious illumination to the
>>>>> tragedy." (page 61 of Vasilyuk's article.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Vasiliuk then comments: "No matter how much the devotees of Marxist
>>>>> materialism try to conceal Vygotsky's religiosity from themselves and
>>>> us,
>>>>> it is perfectly obvious that THESE words [LP -1st order words]  could
>>>> only
>>>>> have been written by a person with deep personal EXPERIENCE with
>>>> prayer."
>>>>> (page 61).
>>>>>
>>>>> To sum up, I am MARKING [for orientation purposes]  the concept of
>>>>> *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT of
>>>> coexperiencing
>>>>> psychotherapy AS philosophy of practice. I believe that the same
>>>> *symbolic
>>>>> gravity* can be expressed through changing images. The plot of
>> "falling
>>>>> away from* and *returning to* can be expressed in multiple symbols
>> such
>>>>> as turning away from God, turning away from the natural sublime,
>> turning
>>>>> away from one's true authentic self, These images are expressing
>>>> different
>>>>> *reliances* but are sharing the same symbolic plot as the cultural
>>>>> mediation of experiencing. The IMPLICIT deepening of coexperience that
>>>> is
>>>>> now emerging in Russia since the 1980's that Vasilyuk is plotting may
>> be
>>>>> implicitly enveloped in this same mytheme of falling away from *the
>>>> source*
>>>>> and then the return to this *source.
>>>>>
>>>>> The book *The Religious and Romantic Roots of Psychoanalysis* by
>> Suzanne
>>>>> Kirschner has plotted this particular myth flowing through Western
>> ways
>>>> of
>>>>> experiencing the meaning of being. She is tracing the roots of the
>>>>> emergence of Freudian psychoanalysis but it is the more general
>>>> philosophy
>>>>> of practice as including this KEY ELEMENT of cultural mediation as
>>>>> deepening coexperiences that I am highlighting.
>>>>> As Vasilyuk says: the task is to LISTEN FOR *the evolving IMPLICIT
>>>>> plot that gives meaning and direction to the subsequent acts of the
>>>>> *development* of psychology [including the KEY symbolic element that
>>>>> *deepens* experience beyond the personal existential.
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
>>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
>>>>
>>>
>