[Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context

[Aria Razfar]

Miguel/Mike,

I think we have a testimonio here. We have questions borne out of a traumatic historical and social episode (WWII), followed by a movement outward "going East," only to discover one's self "Dewey." The self becomes an allegory for the whole. It may seem that Spivak is saying translation is impossible, but I think a testimonio shows the possibility of translation. Thanks for this gift and happy new year!

Aria
   
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context

I inherited such questions as part of my family history and my coming to age during the period of post world war II decolonization, Aria, well before I travelled East, as you suggest. Interestingly, it was in going in East that I discovered Dewey.... such was the form of education that led to my phd.

Concerning misleading translations.
I have PLENTY of problems with issues of translating Vygotsky, in words and in practice! Ask any Russian or scholar whose knowledge of Russian was acquired after the age of 20! (Plenty right here on xmca, one I can see logged into gmail right now). There is a piece in MCA a while back on the perils of translating a key term involving eaching/learning/instruction that is part of an ongoing set of questions about the meaning of the term, zone of proximal development.

Peter's note with the distinction between decolonial/postcolonial seems to pick up on some of the themes that various folks who participated in the Migrant program are making.  Gotta check out wikipedia on third spaces. The metaphor sure has a lot of homes in a lot of discourse communities and I suspect that some translation will be needed!

mike

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:

>
> Mike, would you say that you have been seeking answers to these 
> questions by "going East"? I think Spivak would agree with the second 
> question. In "Translating into English" she talks about how 
> "generations of empiricist English translators have missed the point 
> with Marx's philosophical presuppositions, translated 'inhaltslos' as 
> 'slight in content' and thus made nonsense out of the entire 
> discussion of value. You may have had a smiliar experience translating Vygotsky.
>
> Here it is:
>
> http://przeklad.nazwa.pl/schowek/spivak2.pdf
>
> Aria
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:07 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>
> Aria--- I had not read the Spivak article, although the question she 
> asks is one I have been asking myself for half a century. And, I would 
> add, under what conditions?
>
> I found the article here in case others share my ignorance.
> mike
>
> http://www.mcgill.ca/files/crclaw-discourse/Can_the_subaltern_speak.pd
> f
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>
> > Larry,
> >
> > The specific stance that is amplified by the intersections of "third 
> > space" post-colonial theory, sociocultural theory, and "testimonio" 
> > is somewhat apparent in the language choice. There is no English 
> > equivalent because there cannot be an English equivalent. At least, 
> > there cannot be an "English-Only" equivalent. It represents a 
> > movement toward an indigenous stance on voice, agency, knowledge, 
> > certainty, validity, language choice, and learning. I say a "movement toward"
> > because Spanish itself carries similar baggage especially within the 
> > Latin American context. This is the rationale for why some use the 
> > Aztec idea of Nepantla instead of "Third Space" (e.g., Rochelle 
> > Guiterrez, Gloria Anzaldua). "Testimonio" further complicates what 
> > it means for "subalterns" to "reclaim voice" through the dominant voice.
> > This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the 
> > subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step 
> > outside" the inscribed institutional roles, together in order to 
> > move "to the roots of our being human together." Spivak was 
> > specfically critiqueing "the Western intellectual" voice wondering 
> > if it truly could be a tool of liberation. It seems like a "core" 
> > identity question as we move through various historical 
> > entanglements seeking answers to ontological questions of self in 
> > relation to other. Also
> looking forward to this type of re-search.
> >
> > Aria
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of 
> > Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of Illinois 
> > at Chicago
> > 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
> > Chicago, IL, 60607
> >
> > Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and Action 
> > Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
> >
> > Webpage: http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
> > Tel: 312-413-8373
> > Fax: 312-996-8134
> >
> > This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the 
> > subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step 
> > outside" the inscribed roles, together in order to move "to the 
> > roots of our being human together." It seems like a "core" identity 
> > question as we move through various historical entanglements seeking 
> > answers to ontological questions of self in relation to other. Also 
> > looking forward to this type of re-search.
> >
> > Aria
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry 
> > xmca-l-bounces+Purss
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:08 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
> >
> > Aria,
> > I want to repeat and amplify your suggestion :
> >
> > It is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its 
> > analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., liminality, 
> > double consciousness, third place, etc.). The post-colonial uptake 
> > of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) within the sociocultural 
> > theory is a very specific stance and this might be the moment for 
> > that
> conversation as well.
> >
> > To focus on the *third space* as a VERY SPECIFIC stance.
> > I would like to become clear on the centrality of *witnessing* as 
> > central or the re-search fades away.
> > Also terms such as *mutuality* contrasted with *reciprocity* or 
> > *transactions*.
> >
> > Testimonios as neither subjective [alone] or objective [alone] but a 
> > hybrid MODE that is a form of witnessing.
> > I would also suggest the theme of *gift* as more than transaction or 
> > echange [in continental philosophy traditions] is relevant.
> >
> > There is a *spirit* and a moral virtue within this form of 
> > witnessing as *third space* that plays around with notions of 
> > *trans* as moving across forms [horizons] as trans-versals [or trans-verse-als] .
> > I have an intuition that this type of witnessing is radical, going 
> > to the roots of our being human together.
> >
> > Aria, I look forward to further re-search Larry
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > For those of us working with Kris' sociocritical perspective, 
> > > third space has been a valuable construct for thinking about 
> > > collective learning zopeds and consciousness for that matter. It 
> > > is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its 
> > > analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., 
> > > liminality, double consciousness, third place, etc.). The 
> > > post-colonial uptake of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) 
> > > within the sociocultural theory is a very specific stance and this 
> > > might be the moment for that conversation as
> > well.
> > >
> > > Aria
> > >
> > > Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
> > > Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of 
> > > Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of 
> > > Illinois at Chicago
> > > 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
> > > Chicago, IL, 60607
> > >
> > > Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and 
> > > Action Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
> > >
> > > Webpage: 
> > > http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
> > > Tel: 312-413-8373
> > > Fax: 312-996-8134
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu 
> > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Kris 
> > > Gutierrez
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:56 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
> > >
> > > Annalisa, Manuel initiated the last uptake. (I think others have 
> > > clarified that now :)
> > >
> > > Mike C., Miguel Zavala, Larry Purss and I posted some thoughts 
> > > before the holidays.  For me it is useful to connect Manuel’s 
> > > recent post to those earlier thoughts/conversations.
> > >
> > > Some very quick very unedited thoughts following up on Manuel’s post:
> > >
> > > Michael G., Mike C. correctly points out that the 
> > > testimonios/autobiographies were not research techniques but 
> > > generative tools that were indeed a part of the interconnected set 
> > > of practices that created a collective zoped—a third space if you will.
> > > I try to elaborate this idea in the Scribner Lecture piece 
> > > (sociocritical literacies).  My own work on Third Space, the 
> > > collective work of the instructional team of MSI, ongoing 
> > > conversations with Mike C. and Yrjo over the years at the lab, and 
> > > their work certainly informed this idea of a collective zoped, 
> > > collective third space  (See Engeström, 1987, 1994 in particular; 
> > > Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993; Tuomi-Gröhn & Engeström, 2003; Tuomi- 
> > > Gröhn, Engeström, & Young, 2003; Chaiklin, 2003, Moll, 1990; Moll 
> > > & Greenberg, 1990 as key examples that certainly inform this work 
> > > as
> well.
> > And LSV and Bakhtin are ever present).
> > > These, I think, are useful references, all cited in the article.
> > > Shirin Vossoughi’s recent MCA piece also is very relevant to this
> > discussion.
> > >
> > > Some relevant excerpts from the sociocritical article,
> > >
> > > "To illustrate these points and their relation to a collective 
> > > Third Space, let us examine the MSLI more closely.
> > > The activity system, the MSLI, has a specific internal logic 
> > > organized around expanding the students’ sociohistorical and 
> > > educational ecology through the collective imagining of a new 
> > > educational and sociopolitical future.
> > > To avoid the “interactional reductionism implicit in much 
> > > Vygotskian-inspired research” (Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993, p. 284), 
> > > the specific interactions and practices of the MSLI are understood 
> > > as what Nicolopoulou and Cole call a “genuinely collective reality”
> (p. 284).
> > >
> > > Here we see the [Migrant] institute as an example of the Third 
> > > Space, a collective zo-ped, at the larger level of activity the 
> > > object of which is the sociohistorical reconstruction of what it 
> > > means to be a migrant student.
> > > This movement involves a process of becoming conscious “historical
> > actors”
> > > (Espinoza, 2003) who invoke the past in order to re-mediate it so 
> > > that it becomes a resource for current and future action (p. 154)."
> > >
> > > Testimonios and their embodiment in Teatro del Oprimido (Boal’s 
> > > Theatre of the Oppressed that Manuel introduced to us and the 
> > > program and that he and Vossoughi elaborated) were key means of 
> > > developing/inciting a new social and pedagogical imagination and 
> > > for imagining new futures with/for the migrant students, their 
> > > communities, and indeed for all of us, as Manuel so thoughtfully 
> > > writes. Teatro served as a collective problem-solving space—a 
> > > space where the playful imagination helped to make inequities and 
> > > the roots of social problems visible, while providing an 
> > > opportunity to re-frame events, re-mediate and enact an imagined 
> > > future collectively (such as flying collectively/social dreaming).  
> > > I hope Manuel and Shirin jump in and elaborate these thoughts.
> > >
> > > Re: Research design:  For me, Migrant was in Yrjo and Mike's 
> > > approach, a formative experiment; what I term social design 
> > > experiments—a designed based research approach that foregrounds 
> > > equity, diversity, historicity, and re-mediation, for example. As 
> > > Susan Jurow and I wrote and presented at the ICLS conference this 
> > > summer (a piece that we expect will be part of a larger set of 
> > > papers with Mike C., Yrjo and Annalisa, and Bill Penuel), social 
> > > design experiments: aim to make possible a sustainable and 
> > > dignified life for all humans; address the challenges of 
> > > leveraging cultural diversity and reducing social inequality; and 
> > > call for the co-design of new tools and futures with members of 
> > > non-dominant communities, as but a few key design principles.
> > >
> > >      Absolutely, research as re-searching—searching for the answer 
> > > to a question you have searched for repeatedly without success! 
> > > Well said, Miguel Cole! Thanks, for your thoughts, Michael Glassman!
> > >
> > >      more on sociocritical literacies, later.   kris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kris Gutierrez
> > > gutierkd@gmail.com
> > >
> > > Kris D. Gutiérrez
> > > Professor
> > > Graduate School of Education
> > > 5629 Tolman Hall #1670
> > > University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670
> > >
> > > Distinguished Professor
> > > Learning Sciences and Literacy
> > > School of Education
> > > University of Colorado, Boulder
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for being silly here, but I couldn't help but see that so 
> > > > far on
> > > this thread, there have been appearances by:
> > > >
> > > > mike, Annalisa, Michael, Luisa, and Miguel!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an 
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>
>
>


--
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.