[Xmca-l] Re: (no subject)

[mike cole]

Hi Haydi-

This note has been followed by a long thread of productive exchanges
arising from your
discussion with David, so I will be brief, and be responsive in a more
relevant way as questions arise.

For me, the issue of "in the beginning of was the deed" arose first in
connection with Dewey's critical analysis of the reflex arc concept (my
university training is as a mid-20th century American behaviorist learning
theorist - I am literally a third generation Skinnerian). That this
critique came from as far back as Goethe for reasons broader than I could
glimpse earlier in my life. So I really have no idea where you get the idea
that " I thought you and the majority of good colleagues here think of
Vygotsky as ignoring the act altogether."

In the first declaration of the idea of what it is now acceptable to call a
cultural-historical theory of activity in English, Luria declared that the
ur act of human beings was to act upon the world in a manner that that
incorporates resources inherited extrasomatically, what I thinking of as
culture, our second nature. In that early statement, in THAT beginning, it
was clearly that "in the beginning is the deed."  The "cultural form of
behavior" was the DEformation of "natural" direct reaching for the
object(ive) by inclusion of extrasomatic stuff into an always hybrid act.

Your discussion with David is so full or things to think about, and the
annotations by Larry and others equally so, that I am left with more than
enough to keep me absent minded! thanks.

mike

On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>
wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Maybe I've been speaking about something which is crystal-clear to you . I
> thought you and the majority of good colleagues here think of Vygotsky as
> ignoring the act altogether . It's always been my problem when reading
> Vygotsky . At times , while reading , I reach a point where I can see quite
> clearly , transparently that , as I said , Vygotsky took deed for granted .
> His favorite province was to do research on how child's development finds
> its way through conversion of functions a la benevolence of word and
> broader conceptions plus nuances and interplay with deed . As Francine
> talks so fluently and understandably about what Vygotsky intends to say
> about each problem , I decided to see how she thinks about this point . I
> think she came up with brilliant words in this respect .
>
>
> And the tying with politics of the Day , I think , is the task before each
> of us . Prior to your message , I read Miguel's invitation for an act of
> social fibre . That , too , comes from the infiltration of capitalist rule
> within even the tiniest corner of people's social life . Macro-social
> anti-popular plannings of global transnational Capitalism requires our
> collective talk and deed , union and unison so that life might traverse
> more smoothly upon the path . Asia , Africa , Australia , Americas , far
> from dealing with the dim points which are to be found in each nation's
> history , should be on the alert against the threats which knows no
> boundary and no interruptions . Thanks so much !
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> *To:* Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 28 February 2015, 2:34:52
> *Subject:* Re: [Xmca-l] (no subject)
>
> I do not understand the central message of this note, Haydi.
> mike
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I said the dominant province of Vygotsky's work ; that means all through
> his works , he uses terms and expressions which denote or connote "action"
> : behaviour , operation , activity , work as labour proper and these are
> not things which might escape your good attention .
>
> Then denial of action is denial of what Vygotsky has taken for granted .
>
> Vygotsky does have an unending love for word and literature , art in
> general ; Then we should not take him as being guilty because he either did
> not have time or he did not want to deal with the analysis of "action" .
>
> In his "Higher Psychological Functions" , he first talks about an
> environment , he stresses that the environment necessitates use of tools
> even for the months-old child , then he elucidates in details the influence
> of speech upon each function . It's my assumption that Vygotsky implies
> that when everything is in place , that is , when by the blessings of
> speech , all functions are ripe and rich and replete with influences , then
> the gown-up , adolescent , adult , man becomes ready to go fully for
> transformations . And I don't mean : word ends , action begins ; no linear
> advancement . through zigs and zags , heading towards will be the agenda .
>
> I ask : is that the case that you think that Vygotsky thought that with
> rich , ripe psychological functions a la speech influence , man was
> finished with everything to continue living ?? I'm afraid not ! Man now had
> to take one very big step further , farther . To have ideals , to let them
> penetrate cycles of activities to provide products to satisfy needs because
> the richest , ripest talk will not satisfy life needs .
>
> Capitalism today though decaying , has opted for horrendous deeds and
> wants to go ahead with these deeds through futile talks . Destructive
> arsenals are not for defense as coming from rich beneficial talks ; they
> won't wait for the United Nations' benevolent tribunes nor for the written
> files therefrom , either .
>
> The United Actions of all the oppressed peoples of the world may wayward
> another big disaster !!
> and that requires already agreed upon talks ; otherwise no deed will be a
> crowned one !
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object
that creates history. Ernst Boesch.