Re: [xmca] Re: Luria - New Vodka Old Bottle PDF

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Greg,
Your inquiries into *communicative* discourse and action as a possible
framework seems to be one possible way we are moving through [and possibly
beyond] the psychological and social theory circles into novel formations.
Have you read Calvin Schrag's notion of *transversal* which cuts across the
vertical modernist ideal [universal truth] and the postmodernist ideal
[horizontal fragmented dispersed opinion].?

Larry





On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Greg Thompson
<greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:

> A description of the problem by S. Nadel:
> "*Psychologists will overstate their claims and pro-duce, by valid
> psychological methods, spurious sociological explanations, or the student
> of society, while officially disregarding psychology, will smuggle it in by
> the backdoor; or he may assign to psychology merely the residue of his
> enquiry-all the facts with which his own methods seem incapable of dealing.
> (1951, p. 289) *"
>
> That seems to ring true to my ears - much as it did to Mike's in 1974 and
> to Nadel's in 1951.
>
> Do others disagree?
>
> And maybe more importantly, is this just circling or is there some way in
> which we might instead be spiralling movement that might suggest that we
> are not back exactly where we were?
>
> -greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > I suspect your plaint is part of your answer -- the willingness to
> address
> > problems concomitant to the conceptual development of (variations of)
> > genesis & ecology.
> >
> > I've added a few thoughts, below.
> >
> > Best,
> > Huw
> >
> >
> > On 22 July 2013 07:10, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > To clarify my previous question, I was referring to the article that
> Mike
> > > sent around which mentioned that his post at Rockefeller University was
> > as
> > > a Professor of Experimental Anthropology and Ethnographic Psychology. I
> > > thought these both sounded like fascinating names for academic units
> and
> > > was wondering about what ever happened to them since I don't recall
> > having
> > > come across either of these juxtapositions of terms.
> > >
> > > I should clarify that I ask the question as someone trained in Cultural
> > > Psychology/Psychological Anthropology. And the word on the street is
> that
> > > the trend in Anthropology over the past 15 years or so seems to have
> been
> > > towards not re-hiring psych anthro people for positions in Anthro
> > > departments that have been held by psych anthro people. In other words,
> > > psych anthro seems to be losing momentum. (but perhaps this is more
> > > pendulum swinging than it is a slowing of forward motion?).
> > >
> > > Along these same lines, anthropologists seems to often have hostility
> > > toward psychologists. I have watched a number of attacks on psychology
> by
> > > anthropologists. A favorite was a rather eloquent talk given by an
> anthro
> > > grad student about how the field of psychology assumes an "hypostatized
> > > subject". I happen to agree with her argument, but don't agree with her
> > > takeaway - to banish psychology from the social sciences. I see this
> kind
> > > of critique as one side of a two-sided stupidity, where each side
> > > criticizes the other side without seeing that the other side has
> > something
> > > that their side lacks. (and American politics is dominated by the same
> > type
> > > of thinking).
> > >
> > > I'm a little less familiar with the other side - that of Psychology,
> but
> > > from what I've seen, the idea of an Ethnographic Psychology would
> really
> > be
> > > appreciated only by a small number of fringe Psychological researchers.
> > > Just thinking of it would make most psychological researchers run and
> > hide
> > > at the thought of poor internal validity and reliability.
> > >
> >
> > Psychology itself is multi-disciplinary.  Developmental psychologists
> are a
> > minority.   Many academics who work in psychology have not even heard of
> > Vygotsky.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It seems that these academic fields develop a center of gravity that
> > makes
> > > it very difficult for anything not in close orbit to be considered to
> be
> > > real and worthwhile. And so sure, disciplines have their value as a
> means
> > > of specialization of methods and such, but what I am objecting to is a
> > > different kind of discipline - the kind that excludes combinations that
> > > appear to core researchers in the field to be unrecognizable.
> > >
> >
> > Apropos to of the thesis of implicit mediation.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Mike has two early pieces that speak directly to this problem and,
> imho,
> > > make these points quite nicely (much better than above). The first is a
> > > chapter titled "Ethnographic Psychology of Cognition - So Far" in
> George
> > > Spindler's book The Making of Psychological Anthropology. Here is a
> long
> > > url to the google book (which is worth looking at solely for the
> picture
> > of
> > > Mike in it circa 1975!):
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=8NAh8MqAO_8C&pg=PA612&lpg=PA612&dq=rockefeller+university+ethnographic+psychology&source=bl&ots=IUbReJGeiL&sig=fEqik0Wptm0VMu9w0DR6UYm19NU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R8PsUYm2C8mzyAHloIGgBQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=rockefeller%20university%20ethnographic%20psychology&f=false
> > > And the second is titled "Toward an Experimental Anthropology of
> > > Education":
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3195588?uid=3739928&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102483831431
> > >
> > > Sorry for the long urls (haven't figured out tiny url yet). (and
> > > maybe someone else can make the pdf's available? I didn't want to
> > infringe
> > > on copyrights).
> > >
> > > So let me re-ask my question a bit more directly:
> > >
> > > Mike, what happened to the departments (committees? groups?) that were
> > > called Experimental Anthropology and Ethnographic Psychology?
> > > And maybe they had a less certain existence to begin with; so, in what
> > ways
> > > did they exist in the first place? Were these departments or
> > > sub-departments or committees or working groups? And were they funded?
> > >
> >
> > Apropos to a theme in Mike's 5D projects and elsewhere, i.e. the ecology
> of
> > these projects/activities.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And what followed from these two pieces you authored? Both pieces
> suggest
> > > that they are only preliminary, did either of these concepts/fields get
> > > picked up anywhere else? (I assume that they did in other guises, but I
> > > feel that, despite running in the circles where one would expect to
> find
> > > these combinations, I haven't seen/heard these terms used - but this
> may
> > be
> > > due to my ignorance...).
> > >
> > > Very curious.
> > > -greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Greg, I think that the answer is that these disciplines exist, but
> > exist
> > > > alongside a myriad of other such specialised disciplines,
> contributing
> > to
> > > > the fragmented image of the fragmented world we live in, which is
> > > presented
> > > > by academia. What Vygotsky and Luria and Leontyev were offering was a
> > > > General Psychology, as a foundation for a general,
> *interdisciplinary*
> > > > science of human life. Nothing wrong with specialisation of course.
> > > Science
> > > > is impossible without it. But Psychology, as the founders of CHAT
> > > imagined
> > > > it, was interdisciplinary, I believe, rather than a discipline which
> > > > defended its boundaries against encroachment, and carved out a niche
> > for
> > > > itself.
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greg Thompson wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> What ever happened to Ethnographic Psychology or Experimental
> > > >> Anthropology?
> > > >> In today's intellectual climate in Psychology and Anthropology, they
> > > feel
> > > >> like oxymorons, or even impossibilities (and perhaps to some very
> > > >> few, "cutting edge").
> > > >> Seems like we're just going around in circles...
> > > >> -greg
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 4:34 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Here is a review I wrote some years ago about Luria's Nature of
> Human
> > > >>> Conflicts. It summarizes and provides illustrations of some of the
> > > issues
> > > >>> we have been discussing while introducing others.
> > > >>> Note that a few years ago, the book did appear in Russian based on
> > > >>> reconstruction of the original
> > > >>> manuscript by Victor Belopolsky. It is my impression that the book
> is
> > > >>> little known or appreciated in Russia but I might be mistaken.
> > > >>> For what its worth
> > > >>> mike
> > > >>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:28 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Hi BJ-- I will get the article reviewing luria referred to in
> > earlier
> > > >>>> message next.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> There is an attachment here.  Call it, Cole Review of Nature of
> > Human
> > > >>>> Conflicts and put it under the Nature of Human Conflicts on the
> > Luria
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>> Pubs
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> page and on the page "about" luria.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > >>>> From: Brittany Loy <brittanyloy0217@pointloma.edu**>
> > > >>>> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
> > > >>>> Subject: Luria - New Vodka Old Bottle PDF
> > > >>>> To: Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> attached
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > > > ------------
> > > >
> > > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > > > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > > > http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > > http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Visiting Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
>