Re: [xmca] vygotsky and the revolution

[Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>]

Thank-you for sharing this source Larry. I look forward to reading it.
There is a book by Phillip Jackson called* John Dewey and the **Philosopher's
Task
*that investigates Dewey's evolution of thinking on his use of "experience".
BTW a student of Dewey scholar William Schubert suggested to him that one
way
to understand some of the main themes in Dewey's work is to substitute "is"
for "and" in some of the titles of his books. For example:
*The Child and the
Curriculum<http://books.google.com/books?id=lJEjAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA7&dq=The+child+and+the+curriculum>(1902)
becomes The Child IS the curriculum
*

*Art as Experience <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_as_Experience> (1934)
becomes Art IS experience
*

*Liberalism and Social Action (1935) becomes Liberalism IS social action
 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_and_Education_%28book%29>*

*Experience and Education (1938) becomes Experience IS education*
* Sort of interesting anyway,
Robert
*

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert [and Peter who opened this thread]
>
> Richard Kearney wrote the book "Debates in Continental Philosophy
> Conversations With Contemporary Thinkers" [2004].
>
> The format of Richard's book [written conversations in the hermeneutical
> style of question and answers] is what attracted me to read the book.
> Richard is an excellent conversationalist and he interviewed scholars such
> as Herbert Marcuse, Umberto Eco, H. G. Gadamer, Jacques Derrida, and many
> others.
>
> Robert, as I listened in on how various authors explore the relation of
> "experience" to  "culture" I was reminded of Dewey's questioning if the
> term "experience" could no longer hold the meaning he was attempting to
> articulate. Today, Dewey would use the term "culture" to attempt to capture
> his exploration of "experience"  The conversations in this book have that
> sense ability.
>
> Overall the open question of the boundary between the "actual" and the
> "imaginal" [the rising up above the earth and returning to the earth] is a
> theme explored over and over in the book with the various authors.
>
> For Ricouer, "narrative" as the re-interpretation of experiences within
> traditions [as traditions, experiences are already mediated interpreted
> experiences] are a necessary step in order to imagine anticipated possible
> futures.  For Ricouer, narrativity as "looking back" at what has already
> transpired, is foundational to living within diachronic historicity and
> being able to also anticipate imaginally the future. There is an open ended
> dialectic within closure.
>
> Narrativity, for Ricouer, is foundational for imagining the hermeneutical
> development of literate cultures and is a particular way of understanding
> the relation of the imaginal to the actual [the gap between continuity and
> discontinuity]  Ricouer is exploring multiple, plural, "genres" as part of
> the mediational tool kit.
> I'm attempting to locate this hermeneutical inquiry within Mike Cole's and
> Karl Levitin's notion of human nature. When Mike and Karl
> are exploring saccadic eye movements as articulatingthe gap between the
> actual and the possible they are exploring this gap at the micro genetic
> level.
> I'm reading Ricouer as also exploring the gap between the actual and the
> imaginal but at the sociohistorical level of the gap between the actual and
> the imaginal.
> Narrativity, from this perspective of gaps, is a necessary backward glance
> of "reinterpretation" [remediated] as a "moment" in the process of filling
> in the gap. This gap filling gives the "illusion" of continuity but for
> Ricouer there is full hermeneutical awareness that the gap will always stay
> "open". It is in THIS space of discontinuity as a perpetual gap
> where anticipation and the "possible" transformation of the actual resides.
>
> To return to Alexander Etkind's book "Eros of the Impossible. The History
> of Psychoanalysis in Russia".  This book seems to be documenting a
> hermeneutical intersection of multiple genres or ways of understanding
> Human Nature.
> As George Snow's book review states [page 4], Etkind in his book attempted
> :
> "to come to grips with the question of whether Russians could be and
> indeed, had been transformed into the *homo sovicticus* so intensely
> desired by Stalin and his associates.  It is precisely this concern which
> serves as a coda in the final chapter, one which is a consideration of the
> impact on and internalization of elements of the Freudian paradigm by
> Russian intellectuals as diverse as Mikhail Zoshchenko, Sergei Eisenstein,
> an d Maikhail Bahktin"
>
> THIS question of the possibility of being "transformed" continues to be a
> relevant question. If human nature is experienced in the gap then the
> general question of narrativity as a necessary moment of looking backward
> as reinterpretation, as a moment  filling in the gap of  "experience" is an
> open question of understanding human nature in literate historically formed
> cultures.
>
> Larry
>
> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
> >wrote:
>
> > *Happy New Year to too Larry!*
> > *What book contains the Kearney/Ricoeur conversation?*
> > *Robert Lake*
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > I wanted to thank you for the book review by George Snow, of Alexander
> > > Etkind's "Eros of the Impossible The History of Psychoanalysis in
> Russia.
> > > This book'theme and the structure look like a fascinating read.
> > >
> > > I am currently reading a "conversation" between Richard Kearney [who
> > > studied with P. Ricoeur] and Ricouer. The question Richard asks Ricouer
> > > seems relevant to this thread.
> > >
> > > Richard asks:
> > > It appears that our modern scularized society, has abandoned the
> symbolic
> > > representations or IMAGINAIRE of tradition.  Can the creative process
> of
> > > reinterpretation operate if the narrative continuity with the past is
> > > broken??
> > >
> > > I could give Ricouer's answer to this question, but I will pause with
> > > this posing of the question. There are a multiplicity of
> interpretations
> > of
> > > history - phenomenological, theological, psychoanalytic, structuralist,
> > > scientific, literary, cultural historical.  The question being explored
> > is
> > > if this open-ended multiplicity of genres can be configured as a
> journey
> > > which might "ultimately" return to a "unifying CENTER" where the
> > > conflicting interpretations can be gathered together and reconciled, or
> > is
> > > the "ideal" to embrace multiplicity or plurality [the IMAGINARE of
> > > TRADITIONS]
> > >
> > > It is a new year, with new horizons opening.  This question is puzzling
> > me
> > > and Alexander Etkind is offering one genre of answer.
> > >
> > > Happy New Year everyone
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > According to the review: "Etkind is unambiguous in his assertion that
> > the
> > > > master architect of this Faustian bargain for Russian Freudians was
> > Leon
> > > > Trotsky. The political link between the latter and Russian
> > psychoanalysis
> > > > has, in Etkind's view, been consistently underestimated in Western
> > > > literature on the history of psychoanalysis. He thus strives to set
> > right
> > > > this lack of appreciation--devoting over forty pages to Trotsky, a
> > dozen
> > > of
> > > > which specifically deal with his intellectual enthusiasm and
> continued
> > > > political support for both psychoanalysis and its educational
> offshoot,
> > > > pedology. The latter, a unique Soviet approach stressing the
> > > transformation
> > > > of human nature through childhood, was founded by people who had gone
> > > > through relatively serious training in psychoanalysis (p. 5)."
> > > >
> > > > Figes makes a similar point about Soviet communism regarding its
> belief
> > > > that a Marxist society (one also influenced by Darwin) could, through
> > the
> > > > establishment of an appropriate environment, evolve a new kind of
> > person
> > > > (or more to the point, new kind of people). That belief was new to
> me,
> > > but
> > > > I see it reflected in Vygotsky's work on mediated human
> consciousness.
> > > > Under Stalin that evolution included killing off and exiling those
> who
> > > > didn't fit his vision--thinning the herd, in the Darwinian sense,
> > through
> > > > repression.
> > > >
> > > > Complicated stuff. Figes argues that Soviet communism skipped a step
> > that
> > > > Marx considered necessary for the evolution of socialist societies,
> > which
> > > > was the rise of a capitalist class to be overthrown. I am not an
> > > economist
> > > > or much of a philosopher, so can't assert a position here. Perhaps
> > others
> > > > can help, if this topic is of interest.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 3:22 PM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] vygotsky and the revolution
> > > >
> > > > Reviewed at http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=3386
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Leif Strandberg
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:55 PM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] vygotsky and the revolution
> > > >
> > > > Yes, and now I found the English title: Eros of the Impossible: The
> > > > History of Psychoanalysis in Russia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Leif
> > > >
> > > > 25 dec 2012 kl. 12.02 skrev Peter Smagorinsky:
> > > >
> > > > > http://www.project-syndicate.org/contributor/alexander-etkind
> > > > > I assume that this is the same Etkind?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> > > > > bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Leif Strandberg
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:21 AM
> > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] vygotsky and the revolution
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I learned a lot of the intellectual context in USSR, 1920-1936 when
> > > > > reading Nadezjda Mandelsjtam's Stalins Miracle (where she mentions
> > > > > Vygotskij!), and Aleksandr Etkind's An Impossible Passion (I don
> not
> > > > > know the correct English title), where you can read how the
> > > > > Pedalogy- Movement was interrelated to the political life (e.g.
> > > > > Krupskaja, Kalinin, Vysinskij)... very interesting (and scary).
> > > > > Boris Pasternak's (a friend of LSV) Doctor Zjivago also provides a
> > > > > feeling of the context and the situation for the intellectuals
> during
> > > > > those years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, USSR/Russia was/is an Ocean... and what happens in Moscow can
> be
> > > > > very different from what takes place in Samarkand (and that was
> > > > > problematic in Luria's Uzbeki-journey)
> > > > >
> > > > > Leif
> > > > > Sweden
> > > > > 24 dec 2012 kl. 20.05 skrev Peter Smagorinsky:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Well, it took me about 6 months, but I finally finished reading
> > > > >> Figes'
> > > > >> 824-page tour de force, A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution
> > > > >> 1991-1924 (ending with Lenin's death and Stalin's ascendance). I
> am
> > > > >> glad I read it, even though I was actively discouraged from doing
> so
> > > > >> by some xmca subscribers, both on and off list. I would say that
> his
> > > > >> general perspective does not favor the Bolsheviks, which may
> account
> > > > >> for the efforts to dissuade my reading. I hope that I do have some
> > > > >> powers of discernment that enable me to identify and read through
> a
> > > > >> historian's perspective, however. (n.b. I am also aware that the
> US
> > > > >> has its own history that is amenable to multiple perspectives,
> many
> > > > >> of them unfavorable, so I hope I do not appear chauvinistic in
> > > > >> finding the USSR
> > > > >> problematic.) (full disclosure: my Jewish grandparents and two of
> my
> > > > >> uncles fled Gomel in 1913 and 1916 to escape pogroms, leaving from
> > > > >> Finland and landing in New York.)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Figes does provide, in at times numbing detail, the complexities
> of
> > > > >> the transition from Tsar to USSR, which took place more or less
> > > > >> between 1905 and the early 1920s after the two Russian revolutions
> > > > >> (1905, 1917) brought down the Tsar; and after the civil war that
> > > > >> followed and produced an internecine military battle for control
> of
> > > > >> the Russian territories in the power vacuum. I must say that the
> > > > >> whole affair is far more complex than I'd ever imagined, which no
> > > > >> doubt speaks to my ignorance about most everything that's happened
> > on
> > > > >> this earth, in spite of my ongoing efforts to learn it. I imagine
> > > > >> that there are many and contradictory points of view on the period
> > > > >> and its winners and losers; and I've read but one, at least in
> > > > >> detail. It's a history worth learning about, I'd say.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My purpose here is not to debate the merits of Lenin, Stalin, and
> > > > >> Trotsky, or Marx and Engels, or any of the many lesser-known
> figures
> > > > >> from the revolutions (and there were several). I partly undertook
> > > > >> this reading to get a better understanding of the context of
> > > > >> Vygotsky's life and how his experiences mediated his construction
> of
> > > > >> a theory of human development. I've read a lot of brief summaries
> of
> > > > >> his life, but now must wonder how the incredible period of death
> and
> > > > >> destruction that surrounded his life contributed to his beliefs
> > about
> > > > >> cultural difference and mediation (a major issue in his writing
> > about
> > > > >> defectology). He was born in
> > > > >> 1896 in the Pale of Settlement, the Byelorussian territory to
> which
> > > > >> Tsarist Russia restricted Jews, leaving them subject to death via
> > > > >> pogroms. In 1905, with LSV at age 9, Russia lost a war to Japan,
> > > > >> bringing about the first revolution, which was quelled. Then in
> > > > >> 1914 World War 1 broke out, although hardly in a vacuum; it
> embodied
> > > > >> many extant conflicts. At about this time Vygotsky began the work
> > > > >> that resulted in The Psychology of Art, which he wrote mostly
> from a
> > > > >> sickbed during a lengthy bout with tuberculosis over a period of
> > > > >> about
> > > > >> 6 years, a time that encompassed the whole of WWI and then in 1917
> > > > >> the Russian Revolution that brought down the Tsar- according to
> > > > >> Figes, the Tsar's haughty lifestyle in conjunction with the
> people's
> > > > >> dissatisfaction with Russia's involvement with the war
> (particularly
> > > > >> their struggles against Germany) served as the tipping point in
> > their
> > > > >> willingness to live as his subjects.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It's quite striking that as the world raged and burned around him,
> > > > >> LSV focused intensely on trying to figure out the role of art,
> > > > >> particularly drama and literature, in the development of human
> > > > >> consciousness; and in the version I read (MIT Press translation),
> > > > >> there's no mention of revolution or politics. By the time he was
> > done
> > > > >> the Tsar was overthrown but the civil war between Reds and White
> (an
> > > > >> affiliation of various anti-Bolsheviks, often loyal to the Tsar)
> was
> > > > >> in full stride, with the two sides contending to replace him and
> > > > >> thousands being killed in the process. Yet LSV biographies have
> him
> > > > >> teaching during this time, and ultimately landing in Moscow as a
> > > > >> psychologist, as if there were no disturbances in the environment.
> > > > >> His
> > > > >> career in Moscow is often described as beginning in about 1924,
> the
> > > > >> year of Lenin's death and Stalin's rise, and according to
> documents
> > > > >> recently unearthed, LSV was a devoted communist, even as Jews
> > > > >> continued to be suppressed in the new regime (as testified to by
> no
> > > > >> less a Bolshevik than Trotsky). So, Vygotsky's career as a Moscow
> > > > >> psychologist took place in the 10 years between Stalin's
> ascendance
> > > > >> to power and Hitler's rise in Germany-two extraordinary rulerships
> > of
> > > > >> modern history, both highly repressive, parochial, nationalistic,
> > > > >> violent, and anti- Semitic-that get elided in accounts of his
> > career,
> > > > >> at least those I've read.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One thing I learned from Figes is that Stalin's crackdowns
> included
> > > > >> repression of the arts; and Vygotsky never returned to his early
> > > > >> considerations of the theater with nearly the focus that produced
> > The
> > > > >> Psychology of Art. I imagine that the repressive environment had
> > > > >> something to do with that, but I'm only guessing from my
> historical
> > > > >> vantage point. I have to believe that LSV was not doing psychology
> > in
> > > > >> a vacuum. So how did the tumult surrounding his career contribute
> to
> > > > >> his thinking? If mediation is central to development, it seems to
> me
> > > > >> that it has to matter.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> One thing about the revolutions that I have yet to figure out is
> how
> > > > >> extensive they were. Most of the action seems centered in the
> east,
> > > > >> where Moscow and St. Petersburg/Petrograd/Leningrad/ Stalingrad
> are
> > > > >> located, and thus the locus of power and resources.
> > > > >> But Russia spans 13 time zones, stretches to the Pacific and
> Bering
> > > > >> Straits, and includes 17,075,200 sq km (6,592,800 sq mi), giving
> it
> > > > >> more than one-ninth of the world's land area. Luria's Uzbekistan
> > > > >> study suggests that the revolutions barely touched remote areas,
> > even
> > > > >> in the western region. So I can't figure out how the whole of the
> > > > >> nation was affected by the revolutions, except perhaps for
> Siberia's
> > > > >> service as place of exile.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Well, too much perhaps, but those are some thoughts following my
> > > > >> reading of this interesting history. Any help with contextualizing
> > > > >> LSV's career in light of these events is greatly appreciated.
> Thx,p
> > > > >> __________________________________________
> > > > >> _____
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> > > > >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > *Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> > *Associate Professor
> > Social Foundations of Education
> > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> > Georgia Southern University
> > P. O. Box 8144
> > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > Statesboro, GA  30460
> >
> >  *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> > midwife.*
> > *-*John Dewey.
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
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> >
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>



-- 
*Robert Lake  Ed.D.
*Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
P. O. Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-0355
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460

 *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
midwife.*
*-*John Dewey.
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