Re: [xmca] Fwd: The Privilege of Absurdity

[Jay Lemke <jaylemke@umich.edu>]

You can see how far behind I am in catching up now with old xmca posts in
which I still have some interest, or stake.

I can hardly even recall the original posting that spawned this thread, but
I do recognize my sentiments, and thanks to all who have responded to them.

I suppose that, as so often, different readings of key terms have led to
responses that, while valuable in themselves, are not talking about quite
the same thing I was trying to say. In this case I guess mainly "dupes" and
"elites".

I rarely use the term dupes, so I hope that was someone else's gloss. In
any case, what I think is that a lot of what we all believe we accept
because it's part of the prevailing culture, or some subculture within it,
and that in general a lot of that is as it is because it has historically
served the interests of elites. The particular case of religious beliefs is
an interesting one. I don't think that ALL religious belief necessarily
serves elites, but I do think that all historically sustained religious
institutions have done so and continue to do so, maybe some more so than
others, and particularly those that have very large followings in a
particular time and place, over an extended period of time (centuries), and
are supported, directly or indirectly, by other dominant institutions
(governments, tax laws, mass media, schools, etc.).

Calling all us in-something-believers dupes seems unnecessarily pejorative
and to imply that there are also non-dupes walking around. We are all
enmeshed. Some of us manage to get a little bit less so, we hope, insofar
as we explicitly recognize how some prevailing beliefs serve interests not
principally those of most of the believers (and here I am thinking not just
of religious believers, but even, say of those who believe in capitalism,
or that 15-year olds shouldn't vote or control their own property or be
able to sue in court).

And so I hope the context above will also suggest that by "elites" I don't
at all mean "elitists". In fact I didn't even mean, speaking of elites
manipulating belief systems and their symbols, mainly those who benefit
from this manipulation (distortion, mystification, ideologically functional
meaning-making, class-interest-biased discourse norms, etc.). I meant those
who really do consciously, deliberately try to dupe others into beliefs and
actions that are against their own interests. Just as not all of us are
fully enmeshed in the dominant beliefs, so not all of them are either. Yes,
a lot of rich people believe the same crap that their agents sell to the
poor and middle class, or at least some system-internal variant of it. But
a lot of their agents don't, just as we don't, or at least they are
perfectly well aware that they are distorting what they themselves would
take to be the truth of things, and that they are doing so in the interests
of a certain class to which they have attached themselves (or belong) or
for the sake of certain social goals that they find in much easier to
convince themselves to support once it has become in their own interest to
do so, as they very well know.

I know that it has been fashionable in social science for some time now to
believe that ideologies are perpetuated by the same general mechanisms as
culture as a whole, largely outside individual consciousness and control.
To some extent that is certainly true, especially for widespread and
relatively old beliefs. But within that system of general cultural
reproduction, there is still a lot of conflict and change going on, and a
lot of deliberate, well-financed effort to manipulate the current trends
and future directions of socio-political beliefs. We do it, not very
effectively of late, and they do it, much more so at present.

JAY.


On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 29 May 2012 11:42, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > I read a lot of history, and presently we seem to be headed toward a
> > feudal system where the peasants (the 99%) are expected to pay taxes to
> > further enrich the wealthiest landowners. Progress?
> >
>
> Maybe!
>
>
> > From: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:29 AM
> > To: Peter Smagorinsky
> > Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: The Privilege of Absurdity
> >
> > Thanks for that totally intriguing postcard on US cultural history,
> Peter.
> > Please continue to use such allusions, provided you elaborate in
> footnotes.
> >
> > An Ignoble Award should be given to whoever it was that worked out that
> > the most effective rhetoric for justifying inequality is to abuse those
> > (educated) social strata who try to mitigate the position of the poor. A
> > brilliant move. In Australia it is latte coffee and chardonnay wine that
> > are the symbols of privilege.
> >
> > Had you heard that Gina Rheinhart, who inherited a vast fortune in W.
> > Australian mining (thanks to mining licences from a friendly government)
> is
> > now the richest woman in the world. Last year she actually joined a
> street
> > demonstration carrying a placard opposing higher taxes. She is currently
> > trying to buy control of the Fairfax newspapers, and in court trying to
> > block her own children from receiving their share of her father's
> > inheritance, and has persuaded the government to allow her to import
> > workers prepared to work under the hellish conditions she provides in her
> > mines. She would not be out of place in a dickensian fish market. The
> > desparately poor and the disgustingly rich have a shared fervent desire
> for
> > a bigger slice of the pie.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
> >
> > My apologies for my US-centric references. The Underground Railroad was
> > the escape route for slaves prior to the US Civil War, and they used
> coded
> > texts to provide directions. "Follow the drinking gourd" was a spiritual
> > that was coded to indicate that when traveling at night, slaves should
> > follow the Little Dipper constellation to make sure they were always
> headed
> > toward the North Star, which is in the constellation. There was a whole
> > range of symbols embedded in quilts and other homely objects designed to
> > indicate the escape routes and hiding places. The "n-word" is the polite
> > term for "nigger" which has historically served as a hateful term used by
> > Whites on Blacks, more recently appropriated by Blacks for their own
> usage.
> >
> >
> >
> > My chippy (in the US, meaning aggressive and easily irritated) response
> > concerned Jay's dismissal of his opponents as "elites," which in the US
> has
> > served as the Conservative term to dismiss academics or anyone else with
> an
> > informed position that they don't like. It tends to be anti-intellectual
> in
> > usage, which I regret to say is characteristic of much public opinion in
> my
> > beloved land. "Elites" are to be distrusted because of their social
> > engineering, their drinking of wine instead of beer, and eating of
> arugula
> > instead of regular old lettuce, etc. So any time an academic gives an
> > opinion, it's dismissed as "elitist" and Joe the Plumber is consulted for
> > what Real Americans think. And so Barak Obama, who grew up in a
> > single-parent home with little money, was painted as an "elitist" because
> > he taught at a private law school before entering politics full-time;
> > meanwhile, his immensely wealthy opponent (McCain) and dimwit running
> mate
> > (Palin) were somehow cast as "Real American
> >
> > s" who could be trusted, unlike the elitist academic, Obama.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, I was quite surprised to see Jay use "elitist" in the same pejorative
> > way to describe policymakers whose beliefs he opposes, since it's the
> same
> > means by which Jay, you, and I are dismissed by the political Right in
> the
> > US. It's just a tactic I don't like because it creates a straw person
> > that's easy to blow away because it's based on caricature and
> > overgeneralization. p
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:48 AM
> >
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: The Privilege of Absurdity
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter, your interesting email is so full of (what are to me) esoteric
> > allusions that I can hardly grasp your meaning.
> >
> > But would you agree that in this discussion there seems to be an
> > unwarranted presumption that equality is a universal norm? Granted that
> the
> > "moral equality" of all human beings is rightfully a universal norm, but
> we
> > take for granted all kinds of situational inequality. If I buy something
> in
> > a shop I don't claim equality in determining the price of the goods. In
> the
> > hospital ED I don't claim equality with the triarge nurse in determining
> > priorities. And we accept that a mother has the right and duty to control
> > the behaviour of their child and not vice versa, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Are "elites" (whatever they are) the only ones who manipulate symbols?
> > Consider the underground railroad, in which a whole system of symbolic
> > subterfuge was developed to provide roadmaps to the North (e.g., the
> song,
> > Follow the Drinking Gourd). Or the current appropriation of "the n-word"
> to
> > take on a whole new set of meanings.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> >
> > On Behalf Of David H Kirshner
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:33 AM
> >
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] Fwd: The Privilege of Absurdity
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a very interesting question, and I hope others will chime in.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the current political climate in the U.S. of manufactured science,
> spin
> > doctors, and attack ads, it's very hard not to side with Jay that symbols
> > and ideologies are being deliberately manipulated by elites in ways that
> > directly serve their economic interests. Even though these operatives no
> > doubt rationalize their actions in terms of "the greater good," it seems
> > very difficult to argue that these elites are not deliberately deploying
> > cultural ideas, symbols, and rituals with the intent to manipulate the
> > "dupes."
> >
> >
> >
> > Where the analysis becomes more difficult to sustain is in the case of
> > "traditional churches and their religions as well as historical and
> modern
> > ideologies of more secular kinds" which Jay "would emphatically include."
> > First, it is easy to concede that many of these institutions serve the
> > interests of elites. For instance, the Judeo-Christian holy scriptures
> make
> > frequent reference to eternal obligations of ordinary people to the poor,
> > thereby sanctifying class divisions. And in the Hebrew scriptures, with
> > which I am somewhat better acquainted, there is precise codification of
> > obligations to the Priestly class--definitely self-serving, if one
> assumes
> > it was exactly that class that wrote/selected the canonical texts. But in
> > the meantime, with the destruction of the Second Temple, there is no
> longer
> > a Priestly class in Jewish theological practice, so it is not so obvious
> > who the "elites"
> >
> > perpetrating modern Judaism are, or that their intentions are
> self-serving.
> >
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> >
> > On Behalf Of Greg Thompson
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:27 PM
> >
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: The Privilege of Absurdity
> >
> >
> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > I, for one, am deeply skeptical of how intentional are the "creations of
> > elites." The elites certainly benefit from these creations, but I think
> > that they are dupes just like the rest of us. The elites just happen to
> be
> > the "lucky" dupes (depending, of course, on what you mean by "lucky").
> >
> >
> >
> > My sense is that it's dupes all the way down! (or "up," as the case may
> > be).
> >
> >
> >
> > -greg
> >
> >
> >
> > p.s.  Seems better to look at the structure of the system for the key to
> > the problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Jay Lemke <jaylemke@umich.edu><mailto:
> > jaylemke@umich.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > And not just cultural mediation, but cultural politics. If we strip
> >
> > away the rhetoric of sacred and moral values, we find, I think, that
> >
> > all such grand causes for which people fight and die, or just slave
> >
> > away, are the creations of elites who benefit from the naive trust in
> >
> > these ideas, symbols, and rituals by large numbers of other people. I
> >
> > think the usual term for such people is, unfortunately but
> >
> > accurately,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > dupes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do not believe that evolution has endowed our species with any
> >
> > special propensity for being duped by false gods. Our herd comfort in
> >
> > grand causes and ideals may be real enough, but it is simply the
> >
> > political manipulation of the underlying human capacity for mediation
> >
> > by symbols (discourses, images, ideologies, etc.) that gives cover to
> >
> > the pursuit of their own interests by elites.
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem is not even so much that all such gods are false. It is
> >
> > that they are gods made by other people to serve themselves. And I
> >
> > would emphatically include in this analysis the traditional churches
> >
> > and their religions as well as historical and modern ideologies of
> >
> > more secular kinds. It is customary in polite society to simply
> >
> > tolerate these forms of mass deception for the comfort they give to
> >
> > those who have little else, but I think we know that this is not the
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > path to a better world for all.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > JAY.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:25 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com><mailto:
> > lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a suspicion that cultural mediation may play a role here.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >
> > From: Scott Atran <satran@umich.edu><mailto:satran@umich.edu>
> >
> > Date: Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:36 PM
> >
> > Subject: The Privilege of Absurdity
> >
> > To: COG-SCI-REL-L@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:COG-SCI-REL-L@jiscmail.ac.uk>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Science and Religion Today
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2012/05/22/how-can-a-better-un
> >
> > d erstanding-of-sacred-values-help-us-resolve-intergroup-conflicts/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Humans define the groups to which they belong in abstract terms.
> >
> > Often
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > they
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > strive for lasting intellectual and emotional bonding with anonymous
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > others, and make their greatest exertions in killing and dying not
> >
> > to preserve their own lives or to defend their families and friends,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > but for the sake of an idea-the transcendent moral conception they
> >
> > form of themselves, of "who we are." This is the "the privilege of
> >
> > absurdity; to which no living creature is subject, but man only'" of
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > which Hobbes wrote in *Leviathan*. In*The Descent of Man*, Darwin
> >
> > cast it as the virtue of "morality ... the spirit of patriotism,
> >
> > fidelity, obedience, courage, and sympathy" with which winning
> >
> > groups are better endowed in history's spiraling competition for
> >
> > survival and dominance. Across cultures,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > primary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > group identity is bounded by sacred values, often in the form of
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > religious
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > beliefs or transcendental ideologies, which lead some groups to
> >
> > triumph over others because of non-rational commitment from at least
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > some of its members to actions that drive success independent, or
> >
> > all out of proportion, from expected rational outcomes.
> >
> >
> >
> > For Darwin himself, moral virtue was most clearly associated not
> >
> > with intuitions, beliefs, and behaviors about fairness and
> >
> > reciprocity, emotionally supported by empathy and consolation-which
> >
> > constitute nearly the entire subject matter of recent work in the
> >
> > philosophy, psychology,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > neuroscience of morality-but with a propensity to what we nowadays
> >
> > call "parochial altruism": especially extreme self-sacrifice in war
> >
> > and other intense forms of human conflict, where likely prospects
> >
> > for individual
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > even group survival had very low initial probability. Heroism,
> >
> > martyrdom, and other forms of self-sacrifice for the group appear to
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > go beyond the mutualistic principles of fairness and reciprocity....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2012/05/22/how-can-a-better-un
> >
> > d erstanding-of-sacred-values-help-us-resolve-intergroup-conflicts/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jay Lemke
> >
> > Senior Research Scientist
> >
> > Laboratory for Comparative Human Cognition Adjunct Full Professor,
> >
> > Department of Communication University of California - San Diego
> >
> > 9500 Gilman Drive
> >
> > La Jolla, California 92093-0506
> >
> >
> >
> > New Website: www.jaylemke.com<http://www.jaylemke.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > Professor (Adjunct status 2011-2012)
> >
> > School of Education
> >
> > University of Michigan
> >
> > Ann Arbor, MI 48109
> >
> >
> >
> > Professor Emeritus
> >
> > City University of New York
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >
> > Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of Comparative
> >
> > Human Cognition Department of Communication University of California,
> >
> > San Diego http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *Andy Blunden*
> >
> > Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
> >
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >
> > Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> >
> > _____
> >
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ________________________________
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>



-- 
Jay Lemke
Senior Research Scientist
Laboratory for Comparative Human Cognition
Adjunct Full Professor, Department of Communication
University of California - San Diego
9500 Gilman Drive
La Jolla, California 92093-0506

New Website: www.jaylemke.com

Professor (Adjunct status 2011-2012)
School of Education
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109

Professor Emeritus
City University of New York
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