Re: [xmca] Culture & Rationality

[Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>]

Could it be, then, that if something importantly facilitative happens in schools, it is due to the meta-language for talking about writing, rather than from writing itself? One could imagine that such a vocabulary could be learned out of school, also.

Though it remains possible that, a la Scriber and Cole, specific uses of writing in school have cognitive value.

Martin

On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:

> and there are plenty of non-textual, discursive resources for teaching
> (showing?) the distinction between what is said and what is meant. Deb
> (D-W) and I were just yesterday talking about when kids learn sarcasm (my
> 10-year old had just commented on how he would sarcastically tell people
> "Have a Great Grizzly Day!" after reprimanding them for not following the
> rules of safety patrol).
> 
> Anyway, in addition to *irony* and *sarcasm,* there are other discursive
> forms that are common across cultures, the most ubiquitous of which is
> *teasing.*
> [And it would seem that teasing is more difficult to manage in text than in
> talk b.c. of the lack of prosodic cues. Ever tried to tease someone in an
> email? Or for that matter, to be ironic or sarcastic? Most common result:
> Fail.]
> 
> -greg
> 
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Two thoughts about Olson's work. First, the research he reports that
>> explored at what age children begin to differentiate what is *said* from
>> what is *meant* is open, isn't it, to the classic objection that he has
>> confounded age with years of schooling. Does anyone know of similar
>> research with non-schooled kids?
>> 
>> Second, Olson says that writing makes possible the separation between
>> what's said (what's written) and what's meant, and this leads to a new
>> level of consciousness. Seems to me that writing presents kids with the
>> *problem* that these two levels become separated (where in speech they
>> coincide), and that what schools can provide is the intellectual tools (the
>> meta-vocabulary) to help solve this problem. The texts don't do it alone;
>> what's necessary is adults helping kids figure out the texts.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> On Jul 2, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Michael Glassman wrote:
>> 
>>> Hmmm, I do love chapter six.  And as Peter suggests this is one of the
>> biggest questions in the US right now, and Vygotsky has always seemed
>> extraordinarily prescient to me - almost an avatar (not the video game
>> avatar, the Hindu avatar). So this is an important issue.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition
> Department of Communication
> University of California, San Diego
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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