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Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren

Dear Joseph
You are issuing decrees very supremely . I'm now asking you : " Do all the real things surrounding THE HER-MAJESTY THE GIANT QUEEN OF ENGLAND , all the buzzing , all the yelling , all the fuzzing , all the russling , the wooing , the sirening , the trumpeting , the druming around her these days , let her HEAR the alien ever unheard-of trash , garbage , profane (quite shameless , my kins !!) SOUNDS / WORDS of 'the opressed) , (the wretched of the earth) , (the outcasts) , (the stranger) , (the condemned) , (the smashed and the metamorphasized) , (the downtrodden) the ...  ? " These are people's everyday familiar habitual internalized as well as scientific SOUNDS / WORDS ? Let alone her class , essential , social capability to UNDERSTAND these words ! Let alone her SOCIAL capability to transform first the 'idealities' , then through them , the materialities which these sounds and words are just 'signs' of . Don't you think some other MECHANISM might be at
 work here ? Is not what you have written resemble the stimulus-response mechanism of the watson behaviouristic brand ? When labour and activity for transformation are removed from our analysis , such claims come to the fore . When THE close student and colleague of Vygotsky , Leontiev and others of his kind are being condemned because of his evolution-start with chemical actants , stimulants , etc. , and we laugh at him because he , in his analyses , undervalues or devalues 'human will and agency and true subjectivity' , in quite a natural way , we reach a point of taking 'the wind' , the hammer , the word , the genre , the etc. as SUBSTITUTES for the SUBLIMED HUMAN WILL AND WISH-FUL AGENCY . This is why we sink into the depths of unintangable untiable knots and contradictions .We so frankly detach 'thought' from 'emotion' and 'emotion' from 'thought' . Where are you taking Vygotsky to ? Let alone his true disciples !! 

If you're backing Vygotsky and if you are being backed by Vygotsky , let me understand 'in what sense' should I use your slogans in a way to be a real description of Vygotsky as being a 'materialist' or 'marxist' as some known figures on this list have already tried to prove . 

Now I have to attach what I've already sent to Larry for later discussion without any change . I should stress beforehand that I'm so slow in answering that the once 'saying' of one good lady to the effect that 'some are chasing their tails' in dialoguing with dear Larry quite fits .

 From: Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012, 2:02:11
Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren

Nothing communicates as profoundly as vocal sounds, - motions of the human body -. Everything is named, - identified -, by sounds made by our body. Our own body-emotional goings on is the currency by which all else is valued. We relate to our world with our word. Everything is reletive to the word. The "final word" on anything IS the word. The only handle we have on the meaning of our world is the effect on us of the sounds of our words. We can prove nothing and can only feel our vocal sounds for information of how we are affected by things. It takes different words to communicate different information. Bear in mind that words are fundamentally sounds and secondarily, referential tools. When we refer to a thing, the referential tool is between ourselves and the thing. We perceive and are affected by the tool - the word - first and foremost and then also by the thought of the referred-to thing. Subliminally, the word defines the thing: Consciously, the
 thing defines the word.

        Joseph Gilbert

On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:

> Anyone out there know much about Francois Cooren or the Montreal School of

> Organizational Communication?


> As for the former, Cooren's book Action and Agency in Dialogue asks:

> "What if human interactants were not the only ones to be considered,

> paraphrasing Austin (1962), as “doing things with words”? That is, what if

> other “things” could also be granted the status of agents in a dialogical

> situation?"


> As for the latter, the MSOC is characterized by wikipedia as:

> "taking communication as the "site and surface" of organizations, meaning

> that the latter emerge from and are maintained by communication processes."


> Both of these seem to be very important points that, I thought, articulate

> well with recent XMCA conversations.


> Anyone have any insight?

> Perhaps a recommendation?

> -greg


> --Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.

> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar

> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition

> Department of Communication

> University of California, San Diego

> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson

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