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Re: [xmca] Cultural memory
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- Subject: Re: [xmca] Cultural memory
- From: Andy Blunden <email@example.com>
- Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:53:45 +1100
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That's a good point, Deborah, change of technological
environment causes loss of cultural memory, and you can
demonstrate that story-telling cannot overcome this. Part of
my problem is that a counterexample is needed to fault my
case (a norm maintained over generations by speech
alone) so there is always the possibility of a ounterexample
turning up, so I can disprove but not prove my case that way.
I fear you may be right about "agreeing to disagree." No
interactionist or pragamtist I know sees the point of going
on and on about mediating artefacts. Heidegger people are
the only ones who come near this point.
I suspect this is to do with the times we live in. Our
technology is so mobile that people just don't see it. A
great big power failure might help concentrate the mind
maybe? But I am always reminded of a rich person who tells a
poor person how they don't care about money at all.
Our independence of material culture is one big illusion of
our times. I think also it may be due to an effort to
distance oneself from the taint of Marxism, and not give
any role in human life to the products of material labour.
But I think this is an illusion which needs to be dealt
with, and your example is but one good reason.
Deborah Rockstroh wrote:
I'm wondering if you could approach the challenge from a different angle?
For instance, what happens when cultural memory can't be called upon in an
activity setting - such as when people are forced to use the artifacts of an
unfamiliar culture in technology transfer. Would that demonstrate the
significance of mediation? I'm not sure, but as people tend to take cultural
artifacts for granted (the water that fish swim in), there may be some merit
in taking the cross-cultural technology transfer approach. I'm thinking of
desert Aboriginal people - who have extensive cultural expertise catching
and cooking meat traditionally - have been known to struggle with adapting
that process to a domestic kitchen (i.e. laying a kangaroo across the top of
a stove). If this is of any help I can provide numerous other examples.
Otherwise it may be a case of agreeing to disagree. Sometimes different
theories (and personalities!) are like parallel lines that run so close to
each other, there comes a point along the line where it is not worth
pursuing where the lines meet, if at all.
From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Blunden
Sent: Saturday, 15 October 2011 10:54 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [xmca] Cultural memory
I need some help. I am having a discussion with a supporter of Robert
Brandom, who was at ISCAR, but is not an Activity Theorist. on the
question of cultural memory.
One of my criticisms of Robert Brandom is that he does not theorise any
place for mediation in his theory of normativity. He supposes that norms
are transmitted and maintained down the generations by word of mouth
(taken to be an unmediated expression of subjectivity), and artefacts
(whether texts, tools, buildings, clothes, money) play no essential role
I disagree but I cannot persuade my protagonist.
I challenged him to tell me of a (nonlierate) indigenous people who
managed to maintain their customs even after being removed from their
land. My protagonist responded by suggesting the Hebrews, but of course
the Hebrews had the Old Testament. Recently on xmca we had the same
point come up and baseball culture was suggested, and I responded that I
didn't think baseball-speak could be maintained without baseball bats,
balls, pitches, stadiums, radios, uniforms and other artefacts used in
Am I wrong? Can anyone point to a custom maintained over generations
without the use of arefacts (including land and texts as well as tools,
but allowing the spoken word)?
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
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