Re: [xmca] Activity and interpsychological continued

[Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>]

Dear Larry

This is just to note I'll reply next . Once I told you I'm surprised by your speed of reading ; this I can't do really ; Access to sources is also something notorious with my name . I wonder also if it is shameful for us , guys as citizens of this small village of the huge global World of the Capitalist Society in which the "Copyright" is sanctioned as the supreme value of the Information Corporations and cause for even the author's right to share to tremble with fright and shake and horror , to say we , at times , have to sell our dignity for a piece of information . Try to feel this painful experience !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sources are lacking here totally !!!


There's no indigenousness and locality , Christine ! There's a yoke on the neck , heavy and weightening you down to your knees . Have you had a History of your true Democracy with the Hegemony and Participation of ACTIVE TRIBES ? This is the cause for all the slaughter here ?? To understand you I once read FGR's article . I wonder if it's funny to come to warn against the bitter times of a terrible defeat/collapse . All the turnings even in philosophy are somehow , connected to the Soviet Collapse and I think they should be !!! Rey says something to the point : Consciousness comes with birth ; it's gererative in itself ; it subordinates everything to itself ; it's the blessing spring outpouring consciousnesses incessantly . 

What does Decartes say , then ? We orientalists are quite familiar with these philosophies . And this reaches its climax in believing in deterministic philosophy of life in which we are engaged . Pity the fountain of your boost and peak is downfalling/toppling . 


Very long ago I sent up an article by V P Zinchenko in which and in one place of it , he soared up to the Heavens , this earthly great great fully-known scholar of the Soviet Times . I'll try to find that article again and focus on the locus . 


And I'm Optimistic , however . Many Orientalists are ; they have to be ! Just for fun : Once you learned from us ; went ahead ! This time you're to pay for ! :-) But : Human beings come from the same body as limbs do !!  To that brilliant Day of True Unification !!


Best of the Best

Haydi

  



________________________________
From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2011, 7:51:36
Subject: [xmca] Activity and interpsychological continued


Hi Haydi and everyone who has posted on this subject.


I want to thank you for continuing to engage with my ways of orienting to

this topic.  There is such detail in your response but I've decided to

respond to one section. You wrote,


V.P.Zinchndo Junior who has begun to repudiate His father's findings and

whom Mike , as Guest  Editor of JREEP , has talked about and brought forth

some of His writings . But one thing is crucial : By orienting on

"interpsychological" , you jump then to "intersubjectivity" and "agency" and

begin to discuss in a way as if agency is determined within

intersubjectivity . Just plz answer how in what way within intersubjectivity

in the absence of any activity and action . an agentive element rises up ;

in other words just at the level of "semiotics" and without furthering up to

the all interactions and upheavals and incidences , events , if one can

reach the powerfulness of beginning to act which satisfies an urgent or

distant need . Dialogue  could be most effective while in the direction of a

goal

chosen for the action and in the direction of an activity most important at

any moment which the social relations dictates . **


Haydi, my response is that I may be saying that agency is constituted within

intersubjectivity. [not determined]  I also agree that intersubjective

processes are expressed within larger molar activities and that more distant

institutional structures CONSTRAIN and de*form as well as in*form motives

and inter-psychological character formation.  Mother-infant or teacher-pupil

relational patterns cannot be understood without referring to these activity

molar activities.  Haydi, from a deep commitment to this level of analysis

certain phenomena are revealed [observed constructed, discovered,

interpreted] As I pay attention to more intersubjective aspects of action

and practice it is inevitable that the molar activity level phenomena recede

into the background.   This is a tension I'm aware of as I say "what about

the intersubjective?" [constrained within activity]  By shining a light on

intersubjectivity activity is backgrounded and becomes the ground.


The concept of "hierarchy of motives" within a developmental sequence,

[phase, level, or stage] is a framework which I have questions about. At

this point I wonder if there are motives that stay central. For example the

question of "dependency" within interactions and its developmental

transformations.  "Dependency" is placed in different sequences, and is

framed as "positive" or "negative" in different theories. How we respond to

suffering, neediness, dependency of a 2 year old, 18 year old, 38 year old,

78 year old, has multiple responses. I'm wondering where the hierarchy of

motives fits within multiple perspectives of dependency.


Finally, you mention that V. Zinchenko has turned away from his father's

approach. You mention that many others are also doing the same as they

explore subjectivity, intersubjectivity and situated agency and moving

activity settings into the background.  Alienated labour through the

commodification of our productive activities is where we should turn

[return].  It is this level of analysis that is the source and my focussing

on intersubjectivity and interpsychological are derivitive accounts of this

BASIC MATERIAL reality


Haydi, this is how I understand your concerns.  I am focussing on another

aspect of the phenomena.  The aspect that V. Zinchenko and F. Rey and the

authors in the book "Vygotsky in the 21st Century" are exploring.  As Mike

suggested we are continuing to explore the same tensions that have been

explored for the past few centuries. I am taking a particular slant with a

particular historical tradition that is biased to the interpsychological. I

know it is biased and other aspects are left in the shadows.  I'm attempting

to widen my horizon of understanding without loosing sight of the

interpsychological.


Larry

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