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Re: [xmca] Re:Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
Thanks very much for solving the technical problem. I just had several hours of pure pleasure watching not just one but four
videos. Please do let us all know when part 2 of the second series becomes available.
Colin B
Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester
Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> Andy Blunden 25/11/10 1:08 AM >>>
Nikolai's new video is now available again at:
http://vimeo.com/17166233
Andy
Nikolai Veresov wrote:
> Dear all.
> I am sorry, because of technical problems I deleted the video.
> However, it will be available tomorrow.
> Nikolai
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Taking the HAT out of CHAT (Andy Blunden)
>> 2. Taking the A out of CHAT (Andy Blunden)
>> 3. Re: Taking the HAT out of CHAT (mike cole)
>> 4. Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (C Barker)
>> 5. Re: Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (Temple)
>> 6. Re: Taking the A out of CHAT (Wagner Schmit)
>> 7. Re: Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (Wagner Schmit)
>> 8. Re: Taking the A out of CHAT (mike cole)
>> 9. Re: Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (mike cole)
>> 10. CHAT/SCT - A voice from the past (mike cole)
>> 11. Re: Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (Wagner Schmit)
>> 12. RE: Nikolai Veresov - why not to talk to him?
>> (Achilles Delari Junior)
>> 13. Re: Nikolai Veresov - lost video? (Temple)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:54:29 +1100
>> From: Andy Blunden
>> Subject: [xmca] Taking the HAT out of CHAT
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID: <4CECE0D5.1020209@mira.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> *Response to Poehner and Lantolf.*
>>
>> Not being an L2 teacher or any other kind of teacher, I will limit my
>> comments to Poehner and Lantolf’s attack on philosophy. That they can
>> quote Vygotsky in support of their cause is neither here nor there, as
>> Vygotsky’s entire lifetime is testimony to the place he gave to
>> philosophy in his critique of psychology, and /vice versa/, and the
>> great admirer of Spinoza could be quoted in the opposite spirit just as
>> well.
>>
>> “... Practice sets the tasks and serves as the supreme judge of
>> theory, as its truth criterion. It dictates how to construct the
>> concepts and how to formulate the laws.” (Vygotsky, 2004, p. 304)
>> Vygotsky concludes that the highest test of a theory is practice and
>> that the distinction that had been made between general and applied
>> psychology (e.g., industrial, educational psychology) was not only
>> invalid but in fact, as he convincingly argued in “The Crisis,”
>> applied psychology /is /psychology. This was, for Vygotsky, the full
>> implication of Marx’s Eleventh Thesis on Feuerbach for the science
>> of psychology: “Marx has said that it was enough for philosophers to
>> have interpreted the world, now it’s time to change it” (Vygotsky,
>> 1997b, pp. 9–10).
>>
>> The claim that “practice is the truth criterion” for theory is the
>> position of pragmatism, not Marxism. This may seem like splitting hairs,
>> after all Marx does say in Thesis 2: “The question whether objective
>> truth can be attributed to human thinking is not a question of theory
>> but is a *practical* question. Man must prove the truth ... in practice.
>> >> isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question.”
>>
>> But the passage of 150 years has clarified matters. “Applied psychology
>> /is /psychology,” and the interpretation of Thesis 11, “... it was
>> enough for philosophers to have interpreted the world, now it’s time to
>> change it” makes things clear. Thesis 11 is saying that the point of
>> philosophy is to change the world. In the absence of the socialist
>> utopia, then, philosophy is not done for. The revolution Vygotsky
>> wrought in /philosophy/ is testimony enough to that. The cry that the
>> time for philosophy is past is a call to abandon philosophy.
>>
>> In this context, L2 theory may be fraught with dualisms, but it seems to
>> me that there is a fashion nowadays to point to dualisms everywhere
>> without justification, so I am not impressed with the claim of 20
>> dualisms which might just as well be 20 valid distinctions. My
>> suspicions are confirmed when the authors themselves posit a false
>> dichotomy: “mediation through cultural concepts” versus “mediation
>> through social interaction.” This is a new dualism to me; probably it is
>> what lies behind the neologism of “SCT” which the authors use to
>> supplant CHAT. But more of that later.
>>
>> What on earth is a “/cultural/ concept”? What are “/non/-cultural
>> concepts”? And how is an action to be mediated by a (cultural) concept
>> /other than/ as part of a social interaction.” And what kind of
>> interactions are /not/ social? And what is it that is being mediated
>> other than the (social) use of a (cultural) artefact? Is there any other
>> way of using an artefact other than in the course of a /socially/
>> meaningful action? How is a “cultural artefact” used without “social
>> interaction”? How is a “social interaction” effected without the use of
>> “cultural artefacts” or some other type of non-cultural artefact?
>>
>> So this is a false dichotomy. But what end does it serve? Well, it
>> justifies the use of SCT = Socio-Cultural Theory, by (1) inserting
>> “socio-” usually by contrast with “societal,” (2) dropping the
>> “Historical” dimension of development, and more importantly (3) dropping
>> Activity. So we have come full circle. The meaning of the use of Theses
>> on Feuerbach against itself is to reduce Activity to being the test or
>> manifestation of Theory. But the opposite is just as valid: Theory is
>> the manifestation of Activity, a.k.a. Practice.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:38:48 +1100
>> From: Andy Blunden
>> Subject: [xmca] Taking the A out of CHAT
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID: <4CED0758.40901@mira.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> Thanks to Nikolai for the new video:
>>
>> Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29, 2010. Part 1
>> http://vimeo.com/17150966
>> on Cultural Historical Theory (CHT) meaning CHAT minus Leontyev's
>> Activity Theory.
>>
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:00:57 -0800
>> From: mike cole
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Taking the HAT out of CHAT
>> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Cultu>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> To met, at least, you ARE splitting hairs, Andy. I would be really
>> helped by
>> understanding the relationship of Dewey and CHAT (at least for
>> Dewey!). What
>> is Dewey's great failing from a Marxist perspective? What did he get
>> wrong?
>>
>> They share a lot, it seems to me. So what have I got wrong?
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>>> *Response to Poehner and Lantolf.*
>>>
>>> Not being an L2 teacher or any other kind of teacher, I will limit my
>>> comments to Poehner and Lantolf’s attack on philosophy. That they
>>> can quote
>>> Vygotsky in support of their cause is neither here nor there, as
>>> Vygotsky’s
>>> entire lifetime is testimony to the place he gave to philosophy in his
>>> critique of psychology, and /vice versa/, and the great admirer of
>>> Spinoza
>>> could be quoted in the opposite spirit just as well.
>>>
>>> “... Practice sets the tasks and serves as the supreme judge of
>>> theory, as its truth criterion. It dictates how to construct the
>>> concepts and how to formulate the laws.” (Vygotsky, 2004, p. 304)
>>> Vygotsky concludes that the highest test of a theory is practice and
>>> that the distinction that had been made between general and applied
>>> psychology (e.g., industrial, educational psychology) was not only
>>> invalid but in fact, as he convincingly argued in “The Crisis,”
>>> applied psychology /is /psychology. This was, for Vygotsky, the full
>>> implication of Marx’s Eleventh Thesis on Feuerbach for the science
>>> of psychology: “Marx has said that it was enough for philosophers to
>>> have interpreted the world, now it’s time to change it” (Vygotsky,
>>> 1997b, pp. 9–10).
>>>
>>> The claim that “practice is the truth criterion” for theory is the
>>> position
>>> of pragmatism, not Marxism. This may seem like splitting hairs,
>>> after all
>>> Marx does say in Thesis 2: “The question whether objective truth can be
>>> attributed to human thinking is not a question of theory but is a
>>> *practical* question. Man must prove the truth ... in practice. The
>>> dispute
>>> over the reality or non-reality of thinking which is isolated from
>>> practice
>>> is a purely scholastic question.”
>>>
>>> But the passage of 150 years has clarified matters. “Applied
>>> psychology /is
>>> /psychology,” and the interpretation of Thesis 11, “... it was
>>> enough for
>>> philosophers to have interpreted the world, now it’s time to change it”
>>> makes things clear. Thesis 11 is saying that the point of philosophy
>>> is to
>>> change the world. In the absence of the socialist utopia, then,
>>> philosophy
>>> is not done for. The revolution Vygotsky wrought in /philosophy/ is
>>> testimony enough to that. The cry that the time for philosophy is
>>> past is a
>>> call to abandon philosophy.
>>>
>>> In this context, L2 theory may be fraught with dualisms, but it
>>> seems to me
>>> that there is a fashion nowadays to point to dualisms everywhere
>>> without
>>> justification, so I am not impressed with the claim of 20 dualisms
>>> which
>>> might just as well be 20 valid distinctions. My suspicions are
>>> confirmed
>>> when the authors themselves posit a false dichotomy: “mediation through
>>> cultural concepts” versus “mediation through social interaction.”
>>> This is a
>>> new dualism to me; probably it is what lies behind the neologism of
>>> “SCT”
>>> which the authors use to supplant CHAT. But more of that later.
>>>
>>> What on earth is a “/cultural/ concept”? What are “/non/-cultural
>>> concepts”? And how is an action to be mediated by a (cultural) concept
>>> /other than/ as part of a social interaction.” And what kind of
>>> interactions
>>> are /not/ social? And what is it that is being mediated other than the
>>> (social) use of a (cultural) artefact? Is there any other way of
>>>>> artefact other than in the course of a /socially/ meaningful action?
>>> How is
>>> a “cultural artefact” used without “social interaction”? How is a
>>> “social
>>> interaction” effected without the use of “cultural artefacts” or
>>> some other
>>> type of non-cultural artefact?
>>>
>>> So this is a false dichotomy. But what end does it serve? Well, it
>>> justifies the use of SCT = Socio-Cultural Theory, by (1) inserting
>>> “socio-”
>>> usually by contrast with “societal,” (2) dropping the “Historical”
>>> dimension
>>> of development, and more importantly (3) dropping Activity. So we
>>> have come
>>> full circle. The meaning of the use of Theses on Feuerbach against
>>> itself is
>>> to reduce Activity to being the test or manifestation of Theory. But
>>> the
>>> opposite is just as valid: Theory is the manifestation of Activity,
>>> a.k.a.
>>> Practice.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>>> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>>>
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:03:08 +0000
>> From: "C Barker"
>> Subject: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To:
>> Message-ID: <4CED454C02000088000753C2@gwmail.ncs.mmu.ac.uk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the video.
>> Alas, this was the message:
>>
>> ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>> 2010. Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>> have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>
>> Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>
>> Colin B
>>
>>
>> Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should
>> read the Manchester
>> Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>> http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:21:27 -0500
>> From: Temple
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID: <7A1E2136-A025-4FE1-B3D3-2AB14150AA13@temple.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>
>>> Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the video.
>>> Alas, this was the message:
>>>
>>> ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>>> 2010. Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>> have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>>
>>> Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>>
>>> Colin B
>>>
>>>
>>> Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should
>>> read the Manchester
>>> Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>>> http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:57:33 -0200
>> From: Wagner Schmit
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Taking the A out of CHAT
>> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The video was deleted?
>>
>> Wagner
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Andy Blunden
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to Nikolai for the new video:
>>>
>>> Lecture of Nikolai>>> on Cultural Historical Theory (CHT) meaning CHAT minus Leontyev's
>>> Activity
>>> Theory.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>>> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>>>
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 16:59:55 -0200
>> From: Wagner Schmit
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> This is another Video from veresov, not the one andy talked about..
>> is it
>> lost?
>>
>> Wagner
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Temple wrote:
>>
>>> http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>>
>>> > Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the
>>> video. Alas,
>>> this was the message:
>>> >
>>> > ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>>> 2010.
>>> Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>> > have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>> >
>>> > Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>> >
>>> > Colin B
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should
>>> read
>>> the Manchester
>>> > Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>>> > http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> > __________________________________________
>>> > _____
>>> > xmca mailing list
>>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:18:55 -0800
>> From: mike cole
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Taking the A out of CHAT
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> There was some glitch in the video and nick took it down, a sleepy andy
>> wrote.
>> Should be interesting to learn that activity was irrelevant to Vygotsky!
>> Just what he was
>> accused of by his critics? Should be interesting. Poor Dewey will get
>> left
>> holding the activity bag!
>> :-)
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Wagner Schmit
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> The video was deleted?
>>>
>>> Wagner
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Andy Blunden
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Thanks to Nikolai for the new video:
>>> >
>>> > Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29, 2010. Part 1
>>> > http://vimeo.com/17150966
>>> > on Cultural Historical Theory (CHT) meaning CHAT minus Leontyev's
>>> Activity
>>> > Theory.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Andy
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> > *Andy Blunden*
>>> > Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
>>> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>>
>>> > Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>>> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>>> > MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>>> >
>>> > __________________________________________
>>> > _____
>>> > xmca mailing list
>>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> >
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.e>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Thanks Temple @ temple! its back, and 49 mins long.
>> and thanks Nick for posting (assuming you were the poster!)
>> mike
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Temple wrote:
>>
>>> http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>>
>>> > Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the
>>> video. Alas,
>>> this was the message:
>>> >
>>> > ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>>> 2010.
>>> Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>> > have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>> >
>>> > Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>> >
>>> > Colin B
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should
>>> read
>>> the Manchester
>>> > Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>>> > http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> > __________________________________________
>>> > _____
>>> > xmca mailing list
>>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:37:11 -0800
>> From: mike cole
>> Subject: [xmca] CHAT/SCT - A voice from the past
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity"
>> Cc: Luis Moll
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I know some people who care a lot to distinguish CHAT and SCT. I
>> wonder if
>> there is any consensus on what the critical differences
>> are between them. Here is what I wrote at the Sociocultural
>> Conference in
>> Madrid about 1994 where Jim Wertsch, who edited the 1981
>> book on Soviet activity theory, as a major player and lead editor on
>> the
>> subsequent volume - socicultural theories of mind.
>>
>> More than 15 years have passed since this was written. I may have
>> been dead
>> wrong then and making the same argument now
>> may seem really mistaken. You will see traces of this same discussion in
>> various messages being posted around the P&L article.
>>
>> How should I proceed to find out?? Where are all the L2 people here
>> to help
>> us out here? Other than publishers in applied linguistics preferring
>> SCT,
>> what's in those names that makes people get irritated with each
>> other? Who
>> are the bad people? What are the
>> special virtues of the good people?
>>
>> mike
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For the past several years I have been striving, with rather limited
>> success, to understand the intellectual issues that divide the
>> Vygotskian
>> and activity theory approaches, as well as the division between activity
>>
>> theorists who follow Leont'ev and those who follow Rubinshtein. This
>> task is
>> complicated because, insofar as I can understand, contemporary
>> followers of
>> Leont'ev continue to adhere to the major principles articulated by
>> Vygotsky,
>> Luria, and Leont'ev in the 1920s and early 1930s, arguing in effect that
>> Vygotsky was an activity theorist, although he focused less on issues
>> of the
>> object-oriented nature of activity than on processes of mediation in
>> his own
>> work (Engestrorn, 1987; Hyden, 1984). Followers ofRubinshtein, on the
>> other
>> hand, deny that Vygotsky was an activity theorist and tax him with
>> "signocentricisrn," which in the overheated debates of the last
>> decade of
>> Soviet power seemed to
>>
>> be roughly equivalent to "idealist," a sin at that time (Brushlinsky,
>> 1968).
>> At the same time, they criticized Leont'ev for placing too much
>> emphasis on
>> activity as external conditions, likening him to a behaviorist
>> from attempting to understand these disagreements more thoroughly,
>> although
>> I am not certain how productive such attempts will
>>
>> be for non-Russian psychologists. From existing historiographical
>> evidence,
>> debates among Russian adherents of these various positions appear to
>> have
>> been tightly bound up with the wrenching political
>>
>> upheavals that racked the Soviet Union repeatedly between 1917 and
>> 1991 (and
>> which arc by no means over) (Van der Veer & Valsiner, 1991). What I am
>> almost positive of, however, is that it would not be
>>
>> productive for adherents of the various positions to carry those battles
>> into the international sphere except insofar as they have international
>> intellectual merit.
>>
>> What most concerns me is that for whatever combination of reasons,
>> there has
>> not yet been close cooperation on an international scale among
>> psychologists
>> who work under the banner of activity theory and those who use some
>> version
>> of the concept of sociocultural psychology as
>>
>> their conceptual icon. At the first Activity Theory Congress in
>> Berlin in
>> 1986, there was only one major address that took the work of Vygotsky
>> and
>> Luria to be coequally relevant to the proceedings with that
>>
>> of Leont'ev, and individual talks that proceeded from a more or less
>> Vygotskian perspective were relatively rare. At the second Activity
>> Theory
>> Congress in 1990, there was a far richer mix of viewpoints, but many
>> of the
>> people prominent in organizing the current meeting in Madrid were
>> preoccupied with preparatory work for the current meeting and did not
>> contribute.
>>
>> It would be most unfortunate if adherents of the various streams of
>> psychological thinking whose history I have sketched were to continue
>> their
>> work in isolation from each other. The common intellectual issues facing
>> different streams of cultural-historical, sociocultural, activity based
>> conceptions of human nature are too difficult to yield to piecemeal
>> efforts.
>> It is time for those who have come to questions about the
>> socio-cultural-historical constitution of human nature to join in a
>> cooperative search for their common past and to initiate cooperative
>> efforts
>> to address the difficult intellectual issues and staggering national and
>> international problems facing humanity in the post-Cold War era.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:43:00 -0200
>> From: Wagner Schmit
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> The link from temple sends me to the "thinking and speech" video...
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 5:20 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Temple @ temple! its back, and 49 mins long.
>>> and thanks Nick for posting (assuming you were the poster!)
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Temple wrote:
>>>
>>> > http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the video.
>>> Alas,
>>> > this was the message:
>>> > >
>>> > > ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>>> 2010.
>>> > Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>> > > have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>> > >
>>> > > Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>> > >
>>> > > Colin B
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you
>>> should read
>>> > the Manchester
>>> > > Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>>> > > http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> > > __________________________________________
>>> > > _____
>>> > > xmca mailing list
>>> > >>> > __________________________________________
>>> > _____
>>> > xmca mailing list
>>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> >
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 19:49:39 +0000
>> From: Achilles Delari Junior
>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - why not to talk to him?
>> To: ,
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>
>> This is the Nikolai's last e-mail that I have: nveresov@yandex.ru
>> I don't know if this can help for something. I hope everybody stay
>> all right. Spite TCP/IP problems, or be what this could really be.
>> Best wishes.
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 11:20:20 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>>> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>
>>> Thanks Temple @ temple! its back, and 49 mins long.
>>> and thanks Nick for posting (assuming you were the poster!)
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Temple wrote:
>>>
>>> > http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the
>>> video. Alas,
>>> > this was the message:
>>> > >
>>> > > ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October,
>>> 29, 2010.
>>> > Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>> > > have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>> > >
>>> > > Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>> > >
>>> > > Colin B
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you
>>> should read
>>> > the Manchester
>>> > > Metropolitan University's email disclaimer available on its website
>>> > > http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer
>>> > > __________________________________________
>>> > > _____
>>> > > xmca mailing list
>>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> > __________________________________________
>>> > _____
>>> > xmca mailing list
>>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> >
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:51:59 -0500
>> From: Temple
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Nikolai Veresov - lost video?
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> Message-ID:
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Yes, apologies for that. I posted NV's older video prematurely. The
>> newest NV video remains at-large.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Wagner Schmit wrote:
>>
>>> The link from temple sends me to the "thinking and speech" video...
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 5:20 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Temple @ temple! its back, and 49 mins long.
>>>> and thanks Nick for posting (assuming you were the poster!)
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Temple wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://vimeo.com/10069459
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:03 PM, "C Barker" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Being a bit of a fan of N V, I went to the site to watch the video.
>>>> Alas,
>>>>> this was the message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ' Sorry, "Lecture of Nikolai Veresov, Taiwan seminar, October, 29,
>>>> 2010.
>>>>> Part 1." was deleted at 8:10:21 Wed Nov 24, 2010. We
>>>>>> have no more information about it on our mainframe or elsewhere. '
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea how we might still get to watch the talk?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Colin B
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should
>>>>>> read
>>>>> the Manchester
>>>>>> Metropolitan University's email discla>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>> _____
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>
>> End of xmca Digest, Vol 66, Issue 23
>> ************************************
>>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
MIA: http://www.marxists.org
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