Interesting angle Andy! I suppose it depends on the view of learning
and development you are taking. I came to the zpd via the work of
Rogoff and Lave & Wenger so came to view learning as transformation
of participation in cultural activities. Then I came to Lois
Holzman's work and take the definition of development as the activity
of creating who you are by performing who you are not yet. In my
understanding of these views, learning and development is only
possible with the support of others, by participating in the
activities of (and with) others. I have never thought about the
relevance of the withdrawal of support - I'll have to ponder on that
for a while to see how (or if) it fits in my schema!
Interested to hear what others think,
Helen
On 16 November 2010 01:47, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
Mike, for whatever reason, zoped has never been a concept which
figured very largely in my thinking.
Apart from my interest in understanding social change and
zeitgeist my practical interest in Vygotsky's ideas has been in
relation to practical activity with mature adults, mostly where
the learner is not so much a person, but a group of adults, such
as a union branch or suchlike. But I have also developed an
interest in disability support.
In both these cases, it has always seemed to me that it is the
withdrawal of support which facilitates development, not the
provision of support. Of course, the very act of withdrawal of
support is itself assisting the "learner" in making the
development. Withdrawing support is a variety of support.
Does this fit into the general schema of theorising with zoped?
Andy
mike cole wrote:
Armando.
It seems to me that people can use any term they like in
seeking to index
the processes they believe
to be indicated by Vygotsky. Proximal in English refers to
both time and
space. In Spanish also, I believe as in:
Hasta la semaina *proxima.*
I was simply providing an explanation for my coinage.
mike
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Armando Perez Yera
<armandop@uclv.edu.cu <mailto:armandop@uclv.edu.cu>>wrote:
Mike:
Why we do not work ZPD as zone of potencial development.
ZPD as zone of
proximal development taste as space dimension, Potencial
development taste
as time. Also Zone of colective potencial development
taste as SSD (Social
situation of development) And nbot anly as cognitive
proce3ss but as process
of development of pertsonality.
Only some ideas.
Armando
________________________________________
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
[xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf
Of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>]
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:23 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
Subject: [xmca] zpd zbr zedpd and zoped
I am answering David's question about "why zoped." I did
not include it in
my talk because I am uncertain of the audience's national
backgrounds and was assuming "mixed but mostly Russian
speakers". The talk
was supposed to be about 20 minutes long and I was
uncertain of the time. And I was also mindful of the fact
that on Tuesday
following its showing at the Vygotsky readings, I will be
discussing the
issues raised, and whatever people feel like talk about
via skype,
sooooooo.
As many know, when i organize obrazovanie, I like to mix
serious stuff with
play. Also, I have a long term interest in the the
enculturation
practices and processes of peoples for whom literacy has
not been a central
part of enculturation until, perhaps, recent times. And, I
enjoy
participating in the forms of activity that emerge when
zopeds are created
as a part of our research and educational practices.
With that context (add or subtract to taste) the notion of
a zoped came
from
two sources. First of all, it IS easier to say! :-)
Secondly, it involves forms of pedagogy -- arranging for
the young to
acquire valued skills, knowledge, belief, behaviors, etc --
Third, when it works, it seems like "something happened,"
a qualitative
field that sometimes can be like flow, sometimes can be
triggered by timely juxtapositions, montage-like. And it
seems to lead to a
more inclusive, more integrated way of relating to the
world at least
in that setting. Whatever this "something" is, it has a
magical quality to
it.
In Liberia when and where I pretended to work once upon a
time the most
respected, revered, and feared members of the community were
shamen, a concept referred to in Liberia at the time
(across language
groups, so far as I could tell) as a Zo, what popular
culture refers to
as "witch doctors." They were THE teachers. But they
worked through magic.
That about sums up my idea of the zone of proximal
development. It requires
sage pedagogy and a touch of magic. When those are combined,
they, of course, constitute a zo-ped.
I personally recommend spending time in such third spaces.
:-))
mike
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