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Re: [xmca] someone or anyone
You are so right Carol.
The assumption in the UK is that if you have a high degree of subject knowledge you'll make a good teacher and need a bit of teaching experience on a well-paid course.
Here Pedagogy comes out of a box which does nor relate to pupils or to the context of the specific subject matter.
Absolutely right that this needs to be written about and that the educational politicians who think they know what good teaching and learning are about should put themselves in a position to learn from more knowledgable others like you!
Shirley
Sent from my iPhone
On 13 Nov 2010, at 10:36, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Carol replied:-
>
> On 13 November 2010 11:40, Serpil S Sonmez <sonmez@uwm.edu> wrote:
>
>> I am wondering if anyone can advise me about this issue. I’m sorry if my
>> question sounds ignorant.
>>
>> I have very basic questions but I could not find their answers.
>>
>> What does “more knowledgeable other” mean? What does this person know?
>> Where does his knowledgeable-ness come from? Does simply having a skill
>> grant a person the "tools" to provide assistance to the other within his
>> zpd? If not, when can someone become a knowledgeable other?
>>
>
> I think that it is really part of the definition and certainly there is no
> explanation. It could vary from a child who cottoned onto the idea already
> to tutors and teachers who have a long learning/developmental history.
>
>>
>> Is it possible to provide scaffolding to someone without having any prior
>> knowledge about the person? What's the difference between scaffolding from
>> someone who is familiar with you and from a stranger?
>>
>
> Would you like to do your PhD on that? It depends on the age and the
> background of the child. When I teach small children it takes a few sessions
> to get used to me and then they start make contributions.I have one child
> who know regularly turns to me when he gets stuck, and it's not part of his
> nantal culture. But it is definitely culturally mediated. In the Venda
> culture men don't talk to little children. So when one of my students was
> trying an experiment which included grade 1 children, they had to be carried
> either faint or screaming back to their classroom.
>
>>
>> Can we say that “knowledgeable other” means someone who is familiar with
>> the novice therefore “knows” how to provide scaffolding within the zpd of
>> him?
>
>
> No it doesn't naturally follow. We found that technology teachers could do
> things (like drawing on a grid to make a bigger picture) but couldn't
> explain to the children. Pedagocically sussed people are what you want and
> they may not necessarily be teachers, as they need to see the deep structure
> of the task.
>
>
>> How does one know about someone’s zpd to provide appropriate scaffolding?
>>
>
> It's an ongoing matter of diagnosis, of building a model of what the child
> understands and then working with it.
>
>>
>> Also, does "someone" in the quote "addressivity is the “quality of turning
>> to someone” (Bakhtin, 1986, p. 99), mean someone in particular or just
>> anyone in general?
>>
>
> Sorry I have no idea.
>
>>
>> I realized that I have been using these terms but did not have any answers
>> to these questions. Wherever I look, the knowledgeable other always has some
>> sort of intimate relationship and familiarity with the novice (i.e.
>> mother-child interaction, peer-peer interaction, tutor-student), not random
>> strangers.
>>
>
> Nobody writes about this stuff, so that's why you can't find the answers.
> Hope this helps, but in the best tradition of XMCA somebody will come down
> on me like a ton of bricks. :-)
>
> Carol
>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Serpil
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