Re: [xmca] ideology: easy access web page

[ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org]

007 ain't got nuthin' on the cole <------->john-steiner overt/covert 
continuum timescale

;-.>

eric



From:   mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
To:     Vera John-Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, 
Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date:   09/29/2010 02:19 PM
Subject:        Re: [xmca] ideology: easy access web page
Sent by:        xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu



To me representation corresponds to doodling! (overt and covert!!)
:-)

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Vera John-Steiner 
<vygotsky@unm.edu>wrote:

> Hi,
> To me representation corresponds to brain activity, which is essential 
to
> both overt and covert processes human engage in.
> Vera
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] ideology: easy access web page>
>
>  Well these pragraphs are interesting, but my only problem for having a
>> CHAT concept of ideology is that the writer takes *representation *as 
the
>> most fundamental category, and defines other concepts in terms of
>> representation. But in CHAT, representation is not the fundamental 
category,
>> which would rather be *activity*. And it is hardly a big struggle to 
define
>> *institutions *in terms of activity. The problem is more how to 
conceive of
>> representation in terms of activity. And I think there are very good 
reasons
>> to have activity as a fundamental category and representation as a
>> derivative concept.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Larry Purss wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andy & others
>>>
>>> You mentioned that ideology is institutionalized consciousness, or 
that
>>> institutionalization is inherently an aspect of consciousness and each
>>> are
>>> inseparable from one another.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if this framing of ideology can be linked to notions of
>>> "social representations"  Mike recommended the book "knowledge in 
Context
>>> by
>>> Sandra Jovchelovich and her definition of SOCIAL representations [in
>>> contrast to cognitive notions of representation] seems to parallel the
>>> discussion of ideology.
>>> Her definition of representation:
>>>
>>> To represent is to make present what is actually absent, through the 
use
>>> of
>>> symbols... Representation is at the basis of the construction of
>>> languages,
>>> and the acquisition of speech, and is crucial to establishing the
>>> interrelations that constitute the social order and is the material
>>> through
>>> which cultures form and are transformed across time [history] and 
space."
>>>
>>> She further writes
>>> Representation is the basis of inclusion and exclusion - who is and 
who
>>> is
>>> not represented and underlies the very core of the knowledge of 
ourselves
>>> and the world. Very few representations reach verity [a true depiction 
of
>>> the world]. Even when there is a high level of consensus within he
>>> culture,
>>> there is always some dissent from others proposing alternative
>>> representations.  What constitutes truth and reality is informed by
>>> representations which are always precarious and unstable.... Much of 
the
>>> tension and disputes over representations can be explained by an
>>> underlying
>>> tendency to focus solely on its epistemic function [the ability of
>>> representation to produce knowledge ABOUT the world]  There is a 
strong
>>> tendency to equate the epistemic function of representation with
>>> cognition
>>> and to ERASE from the representational process its connection with
>>> persons
>>> and contexts.  When this happens, representation is reduced to a 
mental
>>> epistemic phenomenon, ruled by information processing functions
>>> [mechanisms]
>>> that cognitive models call "mind".... The MULTIDIMENSIONAL aspects of
>>> representation, which are clearly visible in its social psychological
>>> GENESIS and social foundations are RENDERED INVISIBLE.
>>>
>>> Ideology and "social representations" as concepts seem to share 
similar
>>> roots.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>> It was good to see that a German speaker read this passage the same 
way I
>>> have, because there are multiple translations of the passage. But if 
we
>>> take
>>> the line that ideology is institutionalised consciousness, or that
>>> institutionalisation is inherently an aspect of consciousness and each
>>> are
>>> inseparable from one another in general, then this problematic concept 
of
>>> "false consciousness" disappears. It is simply a matter of the 
practical
>>> critique of forms of social practice, of what deserves to be defended 
and
>>> what should be brought down.
>>> Andy <Andy@mira.net>
>>>
>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   Once Lucas set me off looking at that interesting webpage of Teun 
van
>>>>
>>>>  Dijk,
>>>>> I realized that an inquiry
>>>>> into people's uses of the term, ideology, could take us ANYWHERE. 
So,
>>>>> thinking of anywhere, I thought in
>>>>> particular of Raymond Williams' KEYWORD which is on my home 
bookshelf,
>>>>> and
>>>>> sure enough, the entry there
>>>>> on ideology was interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I wondered if there was a web version so I could add that to 
the
>>>>> discussion in an easy-to-access way and,
>>>>> voila, as they say, I came up with the following;
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/ideo8.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/
>
>>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss
>>
>>
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>>
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