Re: [xmca] animated zpd

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Alexei-- What is your interpretation of the Youtube zoned out clip? You know
the context better than we do.
mike

On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Yes Andy... sure.
> Its only a little caricature... my feelings are very idiosyncratic, of
> course. Maybe only an inoffensive joke. But I feel a little confused because
> for a millisecond I understand that the clip's goal could be help somebody
> to learn about that concept... and not only to make a little joke. But this
> can be because my boundaries with English too - is not so easy for me to
> perceive when something is ironic or not, even in Portuguese... you can
> imagine in foreign languages. Even so, I preserve my considerations about
> the incongruence with a possible Vygotsky's aptitude with a child in real
> situations - more securely we can assume that there is no a vygotskian
> aptitude being represented...
> And yes Andy, you must to write, to create the clip. Even here we are
> writing, as well. And this is not equal when we are talking face to face...
> But is very different you write a script for actors in a play, and write a
> scientific article that will be only read by the distant interlocutor,
> without any image, as is the case of the transcription that they did in the
> clip from passages of the chapter six of Mind in Society.... =) This is, for
> me, one of the probable objective reasons because it sounds so artificial
> and potentially subject to be subjectively understood as some kind of
> "irony" - perhaps directed to hypothetical people that only read something
> and literally repeat - not necessarily for better understanding about the
> matter... But if one not know for who this message is actually directed,
> some ambivalent meanings/feelings can be send/received... This can be
> because the own "emotional polisemy" included in language too, In my point
> of view...
> Well... all this was not for I comment here. I saw the clip since the first
> post, feel this things, and will not say nothing... But Denise's
> considerations make some sense too me, and then I wrote.
> All the best for you all, Andy, Denise and everybody.
> Achilles.
>
>
> P.S. The tool can be very interesting to create more clips, with other
> voices too. I will enjoy to put Bakhtin talking to Michel Foucault for
> instance! I have already some possible talks.  Maybe with some traditional
> introductory narrator voice, only to explain the goals...
> =).......................
>
> > Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:41:54 +1000
> > From: ablunden@mira.net
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] animated zpd
> >
> > While I saw the clip as a somewhat crass interpretation of
> > ZPD, typical as Mike said, of those American interpretations
> > which the Russians so object to, I did not find it
> > disrespectful.
> >
> >      See    http://www.xtranormal.com/
> >
> > This is the application the maker used. It is very simple.
> > Anyone can do it, and of course, as Achilles sensed, you
> > *write* a script, and enter stage directions from a menu,
> > and it makes the video for you.
> >
> > I think the maker probably thought it would be a good
> > teaching tool for communicating what they saw as the basics
> > of Vygotsky. The pallette of tools is very limited.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
> > > I agree in found something disrespectul too, perhaps not indented
> too...
> > > This feeling is translated in my mind as an understanding that the clip
> > > seems to be some ironic/satiric. Because it shows certain artificiality
> > > (if not to say a excessive artificiality) certainly not characteristic
> > > in Vygotsky's relations with children - based in all narrative we have,
> > > including from his daughter Gita. There was also a text from 1931, that
> > > we found in the Volume about Defectology from the Works, titled
> > > "Diagnostic of the devellopment and paedological clinic of the dificult
> > > childhood" (I'm puting in English from my Espanish version) - and there
> > > we can saw a very sensitive concern from Vygotsky about he himself and
> a
> > > psychiatry working with him, attending a little boy and his mother and
> > > translating their experiencing in "thecnical" strange words, that could
> > > not really help the mother to understand better the real situation.
> When
> > > the mother asked for them what that words was meaning, they only give
> to
> > > her the same narrative that she just had exposed to them. Therefore,
> > > Vygotsky turns concerned that he himself and the doctor did not know
> > > very well what was actually hapens with the child, and all the text
> will
> > > work around the methodogical problems involved in this simple
> episode...
> > > I understand that such an aptidude described in the clip souns as a
> > > little irony, and could be give us an oportunity to think about...
> > > Perhaps they was tring to popularize some definitions. But the
> > > definitions was practically literal quotes from wrote language...
> > > Vygotsky had a critics about persons that talk almost as they was
> > > writing... I can localize this too. Of course the clip have not the
> > > intention to be realistic... I think this was a kind of comic irony...
> > > if not very weel contextualized can sounds something disrespectful, I
> > > have to assume, and I feel something in this way.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  > From: dsnewnham@bluewin.ch
> > >  > To: lchcmike@gmail.com; xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; ablunden@mira.net
> > >  > Subject: RE: [xmca] animated zpd
> > >  > Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:55:14 +0200
> > >  > CC:
> > >  >
> > >  > This is not an academic remark but I found the clip disrespectful
> but
> > >  > probably was not intended to be so... What would Vygotsky have said
> > > to such
> > >  > a thing...where the mind is in society today?
> > >  >
> > >  > Denise
> > >  >
> > >  > -----Original Message-----
> > >  > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > >  > Behalf Of mike cole
> > >  > Sent: 22 August 2010 03:49
> > >  > To: ablunden@mira.net
> > >  > Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > >  > Subject: Re: [xmca] animated zpd
> > >  >
> > >  > Makes one pause to think when the children of your critics present
> > > you with
> > >  > a parody of their parents' ideas that they, presumably, take to be
> > > the true
> > >  > grit. The basis for their belief, it seems, is greater belief in the
> > >  > American, oversimplified and linearized view of zones of most
> proximate
> > >  > developmental transformations (e.g., the ZOMPDT). What must their
> > > parents be
> > >  > experiencing?
> > >  > mike
> > >  >
> > >  > On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  > > Yes, so it intrigued me that it was circulated by a Russian,
> > > educated and
> > >  > > living in Moscow, etc., etc.
> > >  > >
> > >  > > Andy
> > >  > >
> > >  > > mike cole wrote:
> > >  > >
> > >  > >> This is a wonderful representation of a large proportion of
> gripes
> > > that
> > >  > >> Russians have with non-Russian interpretations of the zoped,
> Andy.
> > >  > >> mike
> > >  > >>
> > >  > >> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Andy Blunden
> > > <ablunden@mira.net<mailto:
> > >  > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> > >  > >>
> > >  > >> Found this via Alexey Melekhin's FaceBook page:
> > >  > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_Ftio1ops
> > >  > >> andy
> > >  > >> --
> > >  > >>
> > >
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