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RE: [xmca] animated zpd

Yes Andy... sure.
Its only a little caricature... my feelings are very idiosyncratic, of course. Maybe only an inoffensive joke. But I feel a little confused because for a millisecond I understand that the clip's goal could be help somebody to learn about that concept... and not only to make a little joke. But this can be because my boundaries with English too - is not so easy for me to perceive when something is ironic or not, even in Portuguese... you can imagine in foreign languages. Even so, I preserve my considerations about the incongruence with a possible Vygotsky's aptitude with a child in real situations - more securely we can assume that there is no a vygotskian aptitude being represented... 
And yes Andy, you must to write, to create the clip. Even here we are writing, as well. And this is not equal when we are talking face to face... But is very different you write a script for actors in a play, and write a scientific article that will be only read by the distant interlocutor, without any image, as is the case of the transcription that they did in the clip from passages of the chapter six of Mind in Society.... =) This is, for me, one of the probable objective reasons because it sounds so artificial and potentially subject to be subjectively understood as some kind of "irony" - perhaps directed to hypothetical people that only read something and literally repeat - not necessarily for better understanding about the matter... But if one not know for who this message is actually directed, some ambivalent meanings/feelings can be send/received... This can be because the own "emotional polisemy" included in language too, In my point of view... 
Well... all this was not for I comment here. I saw the clip since the first post, feel this things, and will not say nothing... But Denise's considerations make some sense too me, and then I wrote. 
All the best for you all, Andy, Denise and everybody.
Achilles.


P.S. The tool can be very interesting to create more clips, with other voices too. I will enjoy to put Bakhtin talking to Michel Foucault for instance! I have already some possible talks.  Maybe with some traditional introductory narrator voice, only to explain the goals... =).......................

> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:41:54 +1000
> From: ablunden@mira.net
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [xmca] animated zpd
> 
> While I saw the clip as a somewhat crass interpretation of 
> ZPD, typical as Mike said, of those American interpretations 
> which the Russians so object to, I did not find it 
> disrespectful.
> 
>      See    http://www.xtranormal.com/
> 
> This is the application the maker used. It is very simple. 
> Anyone can do it, and of course, as Achilles sensed, you 
> *write* a script, and enter stage directions from a menu, 
> and it makes the video for you.
> 
> I think the maker probably thought it would be a good 
> teaching tool for communicating what they saw as the basics 
> of Vygotsky. The pallette of tools is very limited.
> 
> Andy
> 
> Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
> > I agree in found something disrespectul too, perhaps not indented too... 
> > This feeling is translated in my mind as an understanding that the clip 
> > seems to be some ironic/satiric. Because it shows certain artificiality 
> > (if not to say a excessive artificiality) certainly not characteristic 
> > in Vygotsky's relations with children - based in all narrative we have, 
> > including from his daughter Gita. There was also a text from 1931, that 
> > we found in the Volume about Defectology from the Works, titled 
> > "Diagnostic of the devellopment and paedological clinic of the dificult 
> > childhood" (I'm puting in English from my Espanish version) - and there 
> > we can saw a very sensitive concern from Vygotsky about he himself and a 
> > psychiatry working with him, attending a little boy and his mother and 
> > translating their experiencing in "thecnical" strange words, that could 
> > not really help the mother to understand better the real situation. When 
> > the mother asked for them what that words was meaning, they only give to 
> > her the same narrative that she just had exposed to them. Therefore, 
> > Vygotsky turns concerned that he himself and the doctor did not know 
> > very well what was actually hapens with the child, and all the text will 
> > work around the methodogical problems involved in this simple episode... 
> > I understand that such an aptidude described in the clip souns as a 
> > little irony, and could be give us an oportunity to think about... 
> > Perhaps they was tring to popularize some definitions. But the 
> > definitions was practically literal quotes from wrote language... 
> > Vygotsky had a critics about persons that talk almost as they was 
> > writing... I can localize this too. Of course the clip have not the 
> > intention to be realistic... I think this was a kind of comic irony... 
> > if not very weel contextualized can sounds something disrespectful, I 
> > have to assume, and I feel something in this way.
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > 
> > Achilles.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  > From: dsnewnham@bluewin.ch
> >  > To: lchcmike@gmail.com; xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; ablunden@mira.net
> >  > Subject: RE: [xmca] animated zpd
> >  > Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:55:14 +0200
> >  > CC:
> >  >
> >  > This is not an academic remark but I found the clip disrespectful but
> >  > probably was not intended to be so... What would Vygotsky have said 
> > to such
> >  > a thing...where the mind is in society today?
> >  >
> >  > Denise
> >  >
> >  > -----Original Message-----
> >  > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> >  > Behalf Of mike cole
> >  > Sent: 22 August 2010 03:49
> >  > To: ablunden@mira.net
> >  > Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >  > Subject: Re: [xmca] animated zpd
> >  >
> >  > Makes one pause to think when the children of your critics present 
> > you with
> >  > a parody of their parents' ideas that they, presumably, take to be 
> > the true
> >  > grit. The basis for their belief, it seems, is greater belief in the
> >  > American, oversimplified and linearized view of zones of most proximate
> >  > developmental transformations (e.g., the ZOMPDT). What must their 
> > parents be
> >  > experiencing?
> >  > mike
> >  >
> >  > On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > Yes, so it intrigued me that it was circulated by a Russian, 
> > educated and
> >  > > living in Moscow, etc., etc.
> >  > >
> >  > > Andy
> >  > >
> >  > > mike cole wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > >> This is a wonderful representation of a large proportion of gripes 
> > that
> >  > >> Russians have with non-Russian interpretations of the zoped, Andy.
> >  > >> mike
> >  > >>
> >  > >> On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Andy Blunden 
> > <ablunden@mira.net<mailto:
> >  > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Found this via Alexey Melekhin's FaceBook page:
> >  > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_Ftio1ops
> >  > >> andy
> >  > >> --
> >  > >> 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  > >> *Andy Blunden*
> >  > >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >  > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/><
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> >  > >>
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> >  > >>
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> >  > > --
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> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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