Re: [xmca] Dialogue on Concepts Part 1 Released!

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

I think the Tolman article speaks to your query about volition and
motivation, Monica.

I am having trouble distinguishing distanciation, de-centering, distancing.
All are used in various developmental traditions.

mike

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Monica Hansen <
monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:

> All,
> Point of information:
> Can someone elucidate the terms "motivation" and "volition" in the context
> of our discussion. What is the distinction?
>
> For example, Larry uses "volitional" in his response below,
>
> the volitional capacity to engage various "perspectives of
> distanciation" from the immediate concrete moment to the most "abstract" -
> distanciated from the concrete - systematic concepts.
>
> What type of impetus is required for something to be classified as
> "motivation" as opposed to "volition"? It seems as though the simple
> definitions in a common dictionary would suggest the distinction between
> them as a varying degree of conscious agency? Is this consistent with your
> point here, Larry?
>
> Monica
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Larry Purss
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:48 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Dialogue on Concepts Part 1 Released!
>
> Paula, David, Mike [and Andy & others developing the Vimeo site]
>
> What a powerful medium for clarifying and extending the CHAT dialogues.
> A few quick comments that are more impressionistic on this very educational
> video presentation and elaboration of concept formation.
>
> David, your historically situating the shift from chapter 5's account to
> the
> chapter 6 account as embedded in Stalin's draconian approach to education
> and the radical shift in the way  pedagogy was required to be presented
> gives a deeper context to the evolving theory.  The metaphor of the globe
> -moving from concrete to abstract- as a process of increasing
> "distanciation" as a more "general" way of discussing heaps, complexes,
> psuedoconcepts, true concepts, and scientific concepts is very helpful to
> orient my understanding of these ideas.
>
> Mike, your elaborating the notion of "scientific systems of concept
> formation" as not universal but evloving from INSTRUCTION within SCHOOL
> settings and questioning if there are other ways of formulating systematic
> theories that are cultural but not situated within schooling links up with
> hermeneutical conceptions of "traditions" as formations of systematic
> concept development [and also social representations from Moscovici].
> Schooling develops traditions of increasing "distanciation" but still
> leaves
> open the central question of "layering" As we coordinate and move within
> the
> latitude and longitude of the concrete-abstract configuration is it a
> linear
> progression of transcendence "over" the concrete [mastery & control] or is
> it more a formation of increasing coordination of complexity on "the globe"
> and the volitional capacity to engage various "perspectives of
> distanciation" from the immediate concrete moment to the most "abstract" -
> distanciated from the concrete - systematic concepts.
>
> Chapter 5 p.133 "transition from UNMEDIATED intellectual processes to
> operations mediated by signs" [Mead's significant SHARED symbols]  I think
> this concept is a central notion to be elaborated and critiqued. My
> understanding of "mediation" would include David Kellogg's "2nd  moment" of
> development of the concept.  The nonvolitional affective "movement between
> actual persons" IS "mediational"  [mediated by OTHERS] and seems to be
> foundational for developing concepts. This affective realm, which in some
> accounts would be theorized as "unmediated by signs", seems to be a
> critical
> MOMENT in development. The reason I like the term "distanciated" as a way
> of
> understanding the coordination of concrete-abstract perspectives is it does
> not bias the "scientific concepts" over everyday concepts or cognition as
> separation of affect from thought.  Distanciation "as a tool" which comes
> increasingly under volitional control as perspectives are developing
> increasing complexity recognizes the centrality of mediating the
> development
> of a "communal self" that can NEGOTIATE and COORDINATE subjective and
> INTERSUBJECTIVE perspectives which are experienced as more or less concrete
> or abstract but does not privilege one perspective as more "true".
>
> Last point.  "scientific concepts" as a particular "system of
> distanciation"
> which exists within a particular hermeneutical "tradition" and expands our
> "horizon of understanding" is maybe the most powerful tool we have yet
> developed for coordinating and systematizing our concepts but it is still a
> particular historically developed tradition [which develops particular
> kinds
> of persons] Schools, as institutions, structure and systematize the
> development of this tool for distanciating from the immediate visual field
> BUT it is within historical  circumstances that  "hermeneutical
> traditions" as  systems of social relations and systematized scientific
> concepts evolve. Ontological development "and systematic conceptions of
> "self" and "subjectivity" emerge within these horizons of understanding
> [which must be systematic and regulated in order to exist as particular
> perspectives on "reality" [perspectival realism].  These "tradititions" are
> mediated by significant symbols [concepts] which are systems of concepts.
> These systems may be more or less "distanciated" from the concrete
> immediate
> moment BUT even in the most "advanced" scientifically informed
> societies experience is a dynamic process of movement between the
> "coordinates on the globe"
>
> Once again, thank you for producing this very informative video [which in
> combination with the conversation on CHAT has been successful in helping me
> coordinate multiple perspectives to deepen my understanding of
> "developmental psychology" as a "system  of thinking and concept
> formation".
>
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:26 AM, Paula M Towsey
> <paulat@johnwtowsey.co.za>wrote:
>
> > Part One of the *Dialogue on Concepts*, a collaborative presentation
> > initiated by Andy Blunden, has now been released and is open for
> > discussion.
> > XMCAers are invited to view it at:
> >
> > http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos/13550409
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________
> > Paula M Towsey
> > PhD Candidate: Universiteit Leiden
> > Faculty of Social Sciences
> >
> >
> >
> >
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